"Runaway smash hit" (?)

[x10dude]

...Mazda's biggest issues is that most cars are made in Japan and the economic reality is that importing cars into the USA does not make for a good return. Because of this, a vehicle like the 5 makes a much better return as a JDM vehicle, and certainly makes better return in the EU.

I love my 5, but I also love the relative exclusivity of the owner's circle.

Totally agree. Mazda probably makes much more selling the 5 in Europe and Asia.

Interestingly, Yahoo listed the most popular cars in 2008 so far:
http://finance.yahoo.com/loans/article/105594/Top-10-Sellers-for-2008

Interestingly Mazda5 sales is about only about 1/9th of the #10 Chevy Cobolt.

But I did spot my first Mazda5 today!

 

[skyhawk]

To make a long story short, the real question is: Why Does Mazda Sell the 5 in the USA at all?

My suspicion is that the Limited volumes are there to replace people who would have bought the older MPV and need a little more than a 3 hatchback, but aren't wanting the CX-7.

I love my 5, but I also love the relative exclusivity of the owner's circle.

Exactly how we got the MZ5. The odyssey trim that we could afford was the lowest configuration. i.e. steel wheels, and way uglier than the odyssey touring we used for the road test.

So we had to check out the MPV.. and at the dealer show room, the MZ5 was
beside the MPV.

Mazda 5 GT 2006 A/T. Fully configured to Saskatchewan driving. Block heater, fog lights, A/C, and remote starter. The roadtest was just a formality.. we had decided all along. There was the satisfying feeling of being the 1st amongst my friends to own this type of vehicle'.

 

[coolmazda5]

There was the satisfying feeling of being the 1st amongst my friends to own this type of vehicle'.

I'm still the only one among my friends to own these type of vehicles (freak) (lol2). They don't know what they are missing

 

[Antonio DiMarco]

There weren't that many issues.

What problems? Are you talking about the beta (experimental) model we bought? LOL

I was lucky enough to get one of the first 2000 5's in 06 and lived through the exhaust system recall. We also dealt with the hesitation, 2 bad Recirculation Emission pumps, two bad rear door locks (one per side), cowl creak and 65 mph droan that was cured with a redesigned engine mount. Despite these small issues, after 45,000 miles the 5 has never left us stranded and remains tightly screwed together and a blast to drive. We just took it to the White Moutains and it took the altitude and curves like a champ. To top it all off my wife just sent out the last payment on the 3 year loan. So the 5 will be ours free and clear.

What's even more rewarding is having great stories to tell others who have looked at Mazda. I still gush over my dealership's (Sentry West) first-class CS. And never miss an opportunity to contrast someones horror story about their car with Mazda's first-class handling of the exhaust system recall. People are AMAZED when I tell them how Mazda gave us all brand new MPVs and a $500 check for the trouble.

What I do feel bad about is that those who are just "discovering the 5" (in the US) will have to settle on the 5 speed auto instead of the 5 speed manual we got with ours. That is unless they only want a sport model with zero options.

 

[x10dude]

I was lucky enough to get one of the first 2000 5's in 06 ...

What's even more rewarding is having great stories to tell others who have looked at Mazda. ...

Maybe it is good that the 5 will probably always be a "niche" vehicle and what brought Mazda back from the brink was when it stopped trying to be a Toyota or Honda. Small companies can provide that type of service when needed.

 

[mrbwa1]

Maybe it is good that the 5 will probably always be a "niche" vehicle and what brought Mazda back from the brink was when it stopped trying to be a Toyota or Honda. Small companies can provide that type of service when needed.

I think you have a very good viewpoint. It seem that the new new Mazda (the first new mazda was the early 90s) has really picked a focus and ran with it. Every day I drive home past the BMW dealership and have come to the realizations is that Mazda is positioning itself as the BMW for the people. Everything int he lineup (other than the Ranger and Escaper er... B2000 and Tribute) are built around driving dynamics. Even most auto reviewers acknowledge this fact, often comparing the Mazda3 the "other 3." There is even the Mazdaspeed division to mirrir the BMW M-series.

That said Mazda isn't so much emulation BMW's products as it is emulating it's strategy. Mazda is basically getting back to it roots. Sure the RX3 was a rotary powered curiosity, but the rotary was chosen to provide for performance and handling gains, not to simply be different. But where else can you get a sportwagen with sliding doors? Heck, where else can you get a sportwagen with a MT option that handles this well for under $20K... NOWHERE.

I don't care that it's really a van. It's a car that tho whole family can fit into and still gives a spirited Sunday afternoon drive. It's a car than makes the wife and I choose to take the scenic route. It's a VAN than can 4 wheel drift though a tight bend (learned that on accident and probably won't replicate anytime soon). In short it, is the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing; flying under the radar due to its van like packaging. It is also an increasingly rare example of a manufacture building the car that people want and selling it to just that demographic, rather than building the best compromise and trying to sell it to everyone (Dodge Journey, Toyota Camry, etc).

And oh yeah, they build the 5 is some wild colors...

 

[Antonio DiMarco]

I've looked at BMWs and VWs

I think you have a very good viewpoint. It seem that the new new Mazda (the first new mazda was the early 90s) has really picked a focus and ran with it. Every day I drive home past the BMW dealership and have come to the realizations is that Mazda is positioning itself as the BMW for the people. Everything int he lineup (other than the Ranger and Escaper er... B2000 and Tribute) are built around driving dynamics. Even most auto reviewers acknowledge this fact, often comparing the Mazda3 the "other 3." There is even the Mazdaspeed division to mirrir the BMW M-series.

That said Mazda isn't so much emulation BMW's products as it is emulating it's strategy. Mazda is basically getting back to it roots. Sure the RX3 was a rotary powered curiosity, but the rotary was chosen to provide for performance and handling gains, not to simply be different. But where else can you get a sportwagen with sliding doors? Heck, where else can you get a sportwagen with a MT option that handles this well for under $20K... NOWHERE.

I don't care that it's really a van. It's a car that tho whole family can fit into and still gives a spirited Sunday afternoon drive. It's a car than makes the wife and I choose to take the scenic route. It's a VAN than can 4 wheel drift though a tight bend (learned that on accident and probably won't replicate anytime soon). In short it, is the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing; flying under the radar due to its van like packaging. It is also an increasingly rare example of a manufacture building the car that people want and selling it to just that demographic, rather than building the best compromise and trying to sell it to everyone (Dodge Journey, Toyota Camry, etc).

And oh yeah, they build the 5 is some wild colors...

But with Mazda around I can never rationalize the extra purchase costs and long-term maintenance costs of those euro brands.

 

[coolmazda5]

Exhaust recall?? Whaat?? ... LOL, mine was 4 weeks old, and I was fuming, but oh well, the 3-4K miles I put on that MPV, the Warranty reset by 5 months and the $500 check paid back

Anyway, I believe the Mazda Canada President summarizes it all:

I don't ever see Mazda as being a mainstream company. We were [once] a mainstream company and we failed. We found our souls when we realized we weren't going to out-Toyota Toyota or out-Honda Honda; when we decided we were going to be our own company. That part of our soul that we found back in 1999 to 2000 is going to lead us for the next 10 to 20 years, so that we continue to push ourselves [toward the] enthusiasts, the people who are emotionally connected to their cars [and who are] not just buying transportation. [This] will help differentiate us from other players that are going to enter the market that are not here today as well as those companies that are here but are trying to be everything to everybody. We are the brand choice for automotive enthusiasts. We're not trying to be the biggest.

http://www.nationalpost.com/cars/story.html?id=725951

 

[Antonio DiMarco]

Now that's a mission statement

Exhaust recall?? Whaat?? ... LOL, mine was 4 weeks old, and I was fuming, but oh well, the 3-4K miles I put on that MPV, the Warranty reset by 5 months and the $500 check paid back

Anyway, I believe the Mazda Canada President summarizes it all:

I don't ever see Mazda as being a mainstream company. We were [once] a mainstream company and we failed. We found our souls when we realized we weren't going to out-Toyota Toyota or out-Honda Honda; when we decided we were going to be our own company. That part of our soul that we found back in 1999 to 2000 is going to lead us for the next 10 to 20 years, so that we continue to push ourselves [toward the] enthusiasts, the people who are emotionally connected to their cars [and who are] not just buying transportation. [This] will help differentiate us from other players that are going to enter the market that are not here today as well as those companies that are here but are trying to be everything to everybody. We are the brand choice for automotive enthusiasts. We're not trying to be the biggest.

http://www.nationalpost.com/cars/story.html?id=725951

Nice to know that Mazda has found themselves. And nice to know they will be building the same type of cars for the forseeable future.

 

[Antonio DiMarco]

Yeah and mine was one day old...

Exhaust recall?? Whaat?? ... LOL, mine was 4 weeks old, and I was fuming, but oh well, the 3-4K miles I put on that MPV, the Warranty reset by 5 months and the $500 check paid back

Anyway, I believe the Mazda Canada President summarizes it all:

I don't ever see Mazda as being a mainstream company. We were [once] a mainstream company and we failed. We found our souls when we realized we weren't going to out-Toyota Toyota or out-Honda Honda; when we decided we were going to be our own company. That part of our soul that we found back in 1999 to 2000 is going to lead us for the next 10 to 20 years, so that we continue to push ourselves [toward the] enthusiasts, the people who are emotionally connected to their cars [and who are] not just buying transportation. [This] will help differentiate us from other players that are going to enter the market that are not here today as well as those companies that are here but are trying to be everything to everybody. We are the brand choice for automotive enthusiasts. We're not trying to be the biggest.

http://www.nationalpost.com/cars/story.html?id=725951

We got a call from the dealer exactly one day after we picked up our 5 to tell us that there was a problem but Mazda did not have any idea what it was but we needed to return the car ASAP.

 

[Antonio DiMarco]

Yeah the thing about our engines...

i was getting 20mpg also for a year...but then i slowed down. now im getting between 25-27 MPG

Is that they will guzzle gas when you push them hard. Still they can be fuel efficient when they need to be. My 3speed can get under 20mpg when I throttle her but will return 32mpg when I take it easy. The 5 has always hovered at 23mpg in mixed driving. But I see a huge difference between when I drive and when my wife drives. When she drives it get's closer to 30mpg.

 

[mrbwa1]

Exactly how we got the MZ5. The odyssey trim that we could afford was the lowest configuration. i.e. steel wheels, and way uglier than the odyssey touring we used for the road test.

So we had to check out the MPV.. and at the dealer show room, the MZ5 was
beside the MPV.

About the same here. My wife loved the Oddesy EX-L, but we couldn't rationalize the base price and dismal fuel economy. We went to the Mazda dealer because they have a "new" 2005 MPV still on the lot and drove it. Not bad, but then drove the 5. It was a Goldilocks kind of thing. the wife liked it so much we even considered buying then (though weren't going to buy for 6 more months, and didn't buy for I think 5 months)

Is that they will guzzle gas when you push them hard. Still they can be fuel efficient when they need to be. My 3speed can get under 20mpg when I throttle her but will return 32mpg when I take it easy. The 5 has always hovered at 23mpg in mixed driving. But I see a huge difference between when I drive and when my wife drives. When she drives it get's closer to 30mpg.

Ironically, it's the opposite for me. I guess I'm an economy maximizer, whereas the wile just drives. I can tell you that A/C + city driving = about 20MPG. Still we did a 300 mile road trip with A/C on back country roads we managed about 26 MPG. And I can tell you we weren't taking it easy; we both drove spirited (not hammering the gas/throttle, but traveling at moderate pace)

 

[x10dude]

About the same here. My wife loved the Oddesy EX-L, but we couldn't rationalize the base price and dismal fuel economy...

We have an older model Sienna before they got massive in their remodel a few years back. The new ones won't even fit in our garage.
I think the WHOLE minivan segment got way too big. I don't even think there is a Minivan that is under 200" in length... As a result, they all get dismal MPG.

That's probably one reason the 5 is growing in popularity.
But, in my mind the Mazda5 will have finally "arrived", once I stop getting puzzled looks on my friend's faces when I tell them what car I bought...

 

[starlightmica]

I think the WHOLE minivan segment got way too big. I don't even think there is a Minivan that is under 200" in length... As a result, they all get dismal MPG.

When gas was cheap and big vans cost little more than small vans, buyers went for the big vans. The smaller 4-cylinder short wheelbase Chrysler got the axe last year, and most smaller V6 powered vans were gone even earlier - MPV, previous gen Villager/Quest. The short-wheelbase Kia Sedona is cheap but has the same 3.8L V6 as its sibling and is just as thirsty.

The Mazda5's sales to individuals are still very small - fleet sales were 47% the first half of 2008, up from 44% in 2007. That translates to about 1000 Mazda5's finding new homes monthly, compared to 12,000 Honda Odysseys. Not a runaway success hit by any means.

With $4/gallon gas, I do expect 4 cyl vans to return. Honda is looking at bringing the Stream or the smaller JDM Odyssey (= continuation of 1st gen US Odyssey) stateside, and Ford might be bringing over the S-Max, just in time to go up against the new 2011 Mazda5.

 

[mrbwa1]

The Mazda5's sales to individuals are still very small - fleet sales were 47% the first half of 2008, up from 44% in 2007. That translates to about 1000 Mazda5's finding new homes monthly, compared to 12,000 Honda Odysseys. Not a runaway success hit by any means.

Large Sales != Smash Success. From a business standpoint, the 5 could very well be a major success. without an advertising budget or competition pressuring add features, the overhead would be pretty small. the real questions are:

1. What is the projected sales by Mazda and where do actual sales fall vs this projected target

2. What is the profit margin on the various 5 trim levels and how many much be sold of each to meet a profitability goal?

The recent US economy has shown that car manufactures can push massive volume at deep discount and fail to turn much if any profit. So for argument's sake, let say the Oddesy is pressed by the competition on price enough to have a profit of $100 per vehicle. $100 x 12,00 sold = $12,000. for argument's sake, lets say a 5 returns $1200 profit x 1000 sold = $12,000.

Even fleet sales may seem a non-issue as they generally generate little profit. But, if that increases the vehicle base, it can be seen as a bit of a viral marketing campaign (though a rather unconventional strategy)

Unfortunately, I do not know the true numbers to really put this in perspective. I do, however, find it interesting the Mazda is incorporating asked for features into a vehicle with little competition and reasonable small demand. Why would you bother to make a cash cow better unless you had a forward thing strategy? Perhaps Ford's adventure with teh Gen 1 Focus has shown Mazda how NOT to manage a product line.

 

[x10dude]

Latest August Auto sale figures are out:

"The MAZDA5 multi-activity vehicle posted a 39.7 percent increase versus last August, with 1,324 sales, its best August since launch. Year-to-date, MAZDA5 sales are up 43.3 percent, proof-positive that the MAZDA5 is the right vehicle for today's market."

Still only 14K+ Mazda5s sold year to date but it's definitely growing in a down auto market.