Rotated the upper strut bearings and WOW
- Thread starter CustomMSP
- Start date
Guess he didn't think to try my way?? Unless you have both wheels up in the air and the steering wheel locked to either sides the bearing you're working on they won't drop out of their sockets with the endlink still connected. And putting them back in their sockets is also tricky with the end links attached.Kooldino said:
I guess unless you really have a need for more - camber and + caster I wouldnt mess with it. Or unless you're like me and don't mind trying out new things
As long as I can get to where I need to get to the next day I'm down.Well I'd blame his lack of wheel hop on the mounts. My friend has the AWR front engine mount on and it did a great job minimizing the hop. He has that, plus yours, so it's even stiffer.Kooldino said:
The only way I can think camber effects wheel hop is that the amount of contact pach changes the effective spring rate and keeps everything from vibrating, but that sounds highly unlikely to me.
I have stock motor mounts and I'll have wheel hop with my stock tires, but I get none with my Azenis. My guess: The stiffer sidewall changes my effective spring rate and now I'm not in a range that excites the drivetrain. Oh yeah, and I have over 2 degress of negative camber.
My strut bearing came from the dealer in the correct position for max camber. I could only get -1 degree out of it. So I added camber bolts and am now slightly over -2 degrees. But without camber bolts I would not expect you to see much more then -1 degree.FlyinMSP said:Thanx!
Mallard said:
So your dealer had already rotated the struts?
From what I understand from this thread and from Delsing's site (http://www.delsingmotorsport.com/mazda.htm), the strut mod allows a -1 camber (maybe slightly more), for more we must use camber bolts. I wonder though how much camber it's possible without any mods? Seems like it can't much at all!
Yes. Although I think I could rotate them to gain caster, they are in the position for max camber. I haven't looked at them since the beginning of the summer, that's why I say 'I think.' I had never seen a thread about this mod from someone with an 03.5 so I had always wondered if they all came like that.FlyinMSP said:
Exactly.
Not much.
Read what I'm saying man.Mallard said:
I have both my mount and the AWR in the front. It wheel hops less, but it's not totally gone.
He had the same setup. His still hopped a tad. THEN he did this mod, and now it doesn't hop at all. Follow?
That's exactly what it is.
How did you dial in the camber?
I hear what your saying, but the -1 degree in camber does not change the contact patch that much. I'd be suprised if it was even 1/4" TOTAL. You're saying that he's riding a rail so thin that --> |....| <-- that much changed his set up between night and day? That's so small that the rate of his drivetrain must be on a knife edge, and IMO he just hasn't been in the right conditions yet.
I dialed my camber in by using camber bolts in the upper hole of the upright. (not sure if that's the best way to say that). It's simple. Replace stock bolt with a cam bolt, rotate the bolt, get more camber, then fix the toe. My bolts are maxed out.
I dialed my camber in by using camber bolts in the upper hole of the upright. (not sure if that's the best way to say that). It's simple. Replace stock bolt with a cam bolt, rotate the bolt, get more camber, then fix the toe. My bolts are maxed out.
I work with Mallard and he told me about this post so I figured I'd make a general reply to the whole thing. Here it goes.
Basic alignment stuff: This is not a "mod" it is an alignment procedure. That is why the bearing mounts are made with the strut offset. It gives you a change in Camber and Caster. The repair shops use it to compensate for accident damage. My car came from the factory with the strut mount set for its max -Camber and max +Caster so I didn't have to rotate it. I was able to get -1.2 Camber in stock form. With camber bolts I now have my alignment set to -1.7 Camber, +4 Caster and 0 Toe. Toe will affect the steering responsiveness. Unfortunately Mallard had the Toe-out and Toe-in wrong. Toe out will make the car turn in quicker, but it is a trade-off because you have to give more steering input for sweepers (long corners). +Caster is good because it give -Camber when you turn (+Caster can be pictured like a strut on a chopper motorcycle - when you turn the wheel the top of the tire moves to the direction of the turn). A lot of +Caster will also make your steering feel heavier and will tend to follow ruts in the road more.
Wheelhop: The wheelhop is becuase of stiffness of the system (tire, axles, motormounts, springs and strut damping rate) and how they interact. The change in stiffness because of 1 degree of camber is at most the same as changing your tire pressure 2 psi. I think change in temperature has a much greater affect on wheelhop than alignment. I have driven the Mazdaspeed with 1, 1.2, 1.5, 1.7 and 2 degrees of camber. There was NO difference in wheelhop between them. I've driven RE040s, Fuzions, Blizzaks and Azenis and know that sidewall stiffness (along with grip) makes a big difference. I'm sure everyone knows stiffer motor mounts greatly reduces axlehop on the Mazdaspeeds.
My point is that rotating the strut mount is definitely worth doing. Its just that it is for handling and will not affect wheelhop. You should check your alignment after doing it also.
Basic alignment stuff: This is not a "mod" it is an alignment procedure. That is why the bearing mounts are made with the strut offset. It gives you a change in Camber and Caster. The repair shops use it to compensate for accident damage. My car came from the factory with the strut mount set for its max -Camber and max +Caster so I didn't have to rotate it. I was able to get -1.2 Camber in stock form. With camber bolts I now have my alignment set to -1.7 Camber, +4 Caster and 0 Toe. Toe will affect the steering responsiveness. Unfortunately Mallard had the Toe-out and Toe-in wrong. Toe out will make the car turn in quicker, but it is a trade-off because you have to give more steering input for sweepers (long corners). +Caster is good because it give -Camber when you turn (+Caster can be pictured like a strut on a chopper motorcycle - when you turn the wheel the top of the tire moves to the direction of the turn). A lot of +Caster will also make your steering feel heavier and will tend to follow ruts in the road more.
Wheelhop: The wheelhop is becuase of stiffness of the system (tire, axles, motormounts, springs and strut damping rate) and how they interact. The change in stiffness because of 1 degree of camber is at most the same as changing your tire pressure 2 psi. I think change in temperature has a much greater affect on wheelhop than alignment. I have driven the Mazdaspeed with 1, 1.2, 1.5, 1.7 and 2 degrees of camber. There was NO difference in wheelhop between them. I've driven RE040s, Fuzions, Blizzaks and Azenis and know that sidewall stiffness (along with grip) makes a big difference. I'm sure everyone knows stiffer motor mounts greatly reduces axlehop on the Mazdaspeeds.
My point is that rotating the strut mount is definitely worth doing. Its just that it is for handling and will not affect wheelhop. You should check your alignment after doing it also.
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