Redline oil change frequency

[builthatch]

Since i've been driving, i've always been a fan of following manufacturer's recommendation for oil change frequency. Anything more is really one of those things that is just an exercise in wasting time and money. When i got into built engines, that were tuned with perfect air/fuel ratios using stand alone engine managements on a dyno, i still adhered to the factory recommendations. In terms of weight, I maybe deviated in weight due to clearance differences in the build, but used exclusively mass market "synthetics", like Mobil1 and ran them for the LONG factory recommended intervals between changes. These were intervals that were created with conventionals in mind, and i did this of course with no expense to the performance of the engine.

Considering the popularity and quality of today's true full synthetics, like Redline, I think it's pretty important to realize how well these things do in the durability department. Yes, tuning conditions can many times affect the oil condition, but for the most part, you can run alot longer than you think on a full synth setup, and a good filter.

quoted directly from the Redline FAQ-

It depends on how you drive. If you do a lot of city driving or low speed/low frequency driving, we recommend oil changes at 7500 miles. Vehicles that see more highway driving can go a maximum of 15,000 to 18,000 miles with an oil filter change in between. Modern filter technology and the latest, clean-burning fuels have reduced the solids that contaminate oil, so frequent filter changes aren't usually necessary.

So, whatever true synthetic you use, keep the above info in mind before you go waste money and time changing the oil too frequently. the old "it can't hurt" excuse is not necessarily- it helps nothing, and hurts something: your wallet.

 

[MS3077]

Understood but "what if" you have a problem with you car and the dealership tries to blame your problem on untimely oil changes? I think they recommend every 3-5k and those recommendations obviously go beyond that.

 

[TonyMS3]

Understood but "what if" you have a problem with you car and the dealership tries to blame your problem on untimely oil changes? I think they recommend every 3-5k and those recommendations obviously go beyond that.

I am almost 100% positive my manual said every 7500 miles to change the oil under normal driving conditions, 5000 if you drive it hard in dirty conditions.

 

[tsunami]

i use redline and still change it at 5-7k... i remember a site that you could send in an oil sample to for a break down and they would give you recomendations on that... goldwing posted it a few years ago.. i should try and dig it up as they will recomend based on their findings how much longer or quicker you should have changed your oil.

 

[Rotus8]

Oil does two main things, lubricates, and carries crud away. With synthetics, the lubrication lasts longer due to not breaking down as quickly, but the crud carrying ability is the same as with conventional oil. I change at 5K (I live on a dirt road) even with redline.

 

[builthatch]

Oil does two main things, lubricates, and carries crud away. With synthetics, the lubrication lasts longer due to not breaking down as quickly, but the crud carrying ability is the same as with conventional oil. I change at 5K (I live on a dirt road) even with redline.

this notion is why redline suggests that if you go with very long intervals, 15-18k, you should change the filter somewhere in the middle. the filter is what...filters that junk that enters the bloodstream. i know you know that, i'm just saying. tsunami touched on a valid point- having the oil analyzed can help determine if you car can be inline with these types of expectations. each type of engine, and each generation of engine, burns differently, has different tolerances, etc. so, saying that you could run 15-18k with a mid-term filter change on an '88 scirocco AND you can do the same on an '08 ms3 might be a bit of a stretch. but, it's my opinion that the later gen engines are mainly what redline uses as a basis for their recommendations.

another thing to keep in mind is redline could push shorter intervals and noone would bat an eye. they would sell more oil that way, really. however, they don't take that road because the product really works and if it works, why not state the facts to show exactly how well it works.

 

[tubebrner]

I am almost 100% positive my manual said every 7500 miles to change the oil under normal driving conditions, 5000 if you drive it hard in dirty conditions.

Yes that's correct. The only people that still advocate the 3,000 mile oil change are oil companies and Jiffy Lube, dealers, etc. Completely unnecessary. I change mine every 5k w/ Mobil 1, which is probably overkill but I like to stay on the safe side.

 

[Mike240SX]

If you drive 15k miles a year, doing oil changes at 3k costs roughly $200 to do it yourself with "mainstream" synthetics. If $200 a year is breaking the bank, then you've got bigger issues than oil changes.

Changing it at 3k can't hurt anything, am I right?

 

[MS3077]

If you drive 15k miles a year, doing oil changes at 3k costs roughly $200 to do it yourself with "mainstream" synthetics. If $200 a year is breaking the bank, then you've got bigger issues than oil changes.

Changing it at 3k can't hurt anything, am I right?

Only thing changing it at 3k is going to hurt is your bank account

 

[Betelgeuse]

IMO, in this car, according to the UOAs I've seen and done, 3 -3.5k is recommended as fuel dilution / viscosity is an issue.

And another thing, I've seen very little proof in the numbers that going full synth in this car is a big improvement (if at all) over regular old dino. Despite what X website or person has to say, do a UOA to see what's really happening in your engine. Then from that info, decide whether or not longer intervals are safe.


Here's an interesting story (with pics) on a bmw that had gobs of sludge in the engine after long intervals with Mobil 1. Of course, it's a different engine but it does drive home a point:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=559336

 

[tburton101]

i havent did a oil change yet on the mazda but i will tell you i did oil changes every 2500k to 3k with my cars somtimes over never 5k

 

[builthatch]

IMO, in this car, according to the UOAs I've seen and done, 3 -3.5k is recommended as fuel dilution / viscosity is an issue.

And another thing, I've seen very little proof in the numbers that going full synth in this car is a big improvement (if at all) over regular old dino. Despite what X website or person has to say, do a UOA to see what's really happening in your engine. Then from that info, decide whether or not longer intervals are safe.


Here's an interesting story (with pics) on a bmw that had gobs of sludge in the engine after long intervals with Mobil 1. Of course, it's a different engine but it does drive home a point:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=559336

i run redline because it's the best quality stuff i can run and, because of that, it also allows me to run long interval changes, which for me means not 3k, but the tail end of the factory recommendations. if the engine is in a good state of tune, it simply takes longer to break redline down than anything else readily available, sans amsoil. i can't speak about torco of other similar brands. but i would bet the house that i, the next guy, or the next guy who has my car will not see an issue from any oil issues despite what any UOA would say about anything. it's counterintuitive to push to change the oil sooner than factory recommendations that were based on conventional when using a premium full synthetic and a premium filter. in fact, you probably can run double the recommendations considering the oil and filter quality when you upgrade, but the fact is running over 7500 for most people, in a performance car, is uncomfortable no matter what.

re: that BMW link, i didn't even look at it yet, but i can say that mobil1 aint redline, that's for sure, and an e46 bimmer is a totally different animal on most fronts vs. ours. but mobil1 is good, and you can atleast run factory oil intervals with it with no problem ever. I am willing to bet that whatever happened would have happened no matter what oil was in it...it's a BMW and they have catastrophic design issues often (early e46 m3 balance issues, remember those?)

you are correct when you mentioned the engine difference, because that and so many other things can change an engines needs in terms of service, however, i ran almost 70k on my built sohc vtec (over 12:1 CR), and would change the oil ever 5-7k with mass market mobil1 and K&N oil filter. when i pulled apart that engine to part it out (sell bottom end, sell head, etc), i dropped the oil pan and popped the caps off to check the rod bearings for the next guy. the engine looked as if it was literally a 5k mile engine. every single internal surface of the rotating assembly was as if it was run for break-in and nothing more. i didn't get to see the crank bearings or journals, but i'm sure they mirrored the same results.

same with the top end - cam journals were mint, rocker arm pads, lobes, etc. 70k isn't much mileage on an older design honda engine, but still- it was seeing alot of fuel and alot of compression which you think might contaminate the crankcase a bit.

 

[builthatch]

If you drive 15k miles a year, doing oil changes at 3k costs roughly $200 to do it yourself with "mainstream" synthetics. If $200 a year is breaking the bank, then you've got bigger issues than oil changes.

Changing it at 3k can't hurt anything, am I right?

neither can brushing your teeth 6 times a day or changing your clothes 4 times. it's just not necessary and wasteful, that's all.

i havent done an oil change yet on the mazda but i will tell you i did oil changes every 2500k to 3k with my cars sometimes over never 5k

fixed...and...

a waste.

 

[JDM Sam]

You forget you have a turbo car. The hotter the oil temperatures, the faster it breaks down the oil. If you like your turbo you will make sure it has fresh clean oil for the bearing and the rest of your engine.

 

[Betelgeuse]

You forget you have a turbo car. The hotter the oil temperatures, the faster it breaks down the oil. If you like your turbo you will make sure it has fresh clean oil for the bearing and the rest of your engine.

+1

Exactly, in a turboed engine the oil is stressed more. I wouldn't put 100 % trust in any oil to prevent wear after long intervals.

 

[jgirata]

I am almost 100% positive my manual said every 7500 miles to change the oil under normal driving conditions, 5000 if you drive it hard in dirty conditions.

I just bought a 2008 3 GT - the owners manual says to change oil every 10,000 km, or 6,000 miles, if you drive in ideal conditions, and every 5,000 km, or 3,000 if you drive in difficult conditions. Basically they define difficult as short trips, dusty/muddy conditions, etc. This is one of the shortest recommended oil change intervals of any car I've purchased recently (Honda S2000 & Accord, BMW 3 Series, Ford Explorer, etc)

 

[builthatch]

You forget you have a turbo car. The hotter the oil temperatures, the faster it breaks down the oil. If you like your turbo you will make sure it has fresh clean oil for the bearing and the rest of your engine.

well, if i forgot i have turbo car, you must have forgotten you have an oil cooler and a water cooled center section on that turbo. on a side note, the combustion in this thing is particularly cool too due to the direct injection, despite the compressed charge. a cooler CC translates into cooler stuff all around because everything around the CC doesn't have to be relied on as much for pulling heat out of the process.

this engine doesn't see any particular undue stress to the oil vs any other high performance small displacement engine.

give it up guys. just change your oil sooner and waste your cash, but don't pollute the thread with non-issues.

 

[Betelgeuse]

well, if i forgot i have turbo car, you must have forgotten you have an oil cooler and a water cooled center section on that turbo. on a side note, the combustion in this thing is particularly cool too due to the direct injection, despite the compressed charge. a cooler CC translates into cooler stuff all around because everything around the CC doesn't have to be relied on as much for pulling heat out of the process.

this engine doesn't see any particular undue stress to the oil vs any other high performance small displacement engine.

give it up guys. just change your oil sooner and waste your cash, but don't pollute the thread with non-issues.

You talk as if you're 100 percent certain about everything yet you dismiss the very thing (A UOA) that tells you how your oil is doing in your engine.

Hey it's your car, do as you wish. I'll definitely continue to 'waste' my money on frequent changes.

 

[builthatch]

You talk as if you're 100 percent certain about everything yet you dismiss the very thing (A UOA) that tells you how your oil is doing in your engine.

Hey it's your car, do as you wish. I'll definitely continue to 'waste' my money on frequent changes.

i'm certainly not going to change my oil more frequently than what the FACTORY dictates as superior for their design, especially when i'm using oil that far exceeds that on which the factory based their design. in that case, i'll even extend it, closer to the oil manufacturer's recommendations and on the far end of the factory's recommendations.

if you read waaay before you entered this thread, you will notice that i recommend analyzation IF you are not sure of your application and how it behaves, since wildly tuned cars that deviate from factory spec and tune also can deviate from factory service recommendations.

this is not the case with our cars, atleast not mine, and from what i've seen many of us on this board, so that said, there is no reason to worry about analyzation, or deviating from factory service spec.

 

[JDM Sam]

well, if i forgot i have turbo car, you must have forgotten you have an oil cooler and a water cooled center section on that turbo. on a side note, the combustion in this thing is particularly cool too due to the direct injection, despite the compressed charge. a cooler CC translates into cooler stuff all around because everything around the CC doesn't have to be relied on as much for pulling heat out of the process.

this engine doesn't see any particular undue stress to the oil vs any other high performance small displacement engine.

give it up guys. just change your oil sooner and waste your cash, but don't pollute the thread with non-issues.

Is this your first turbocharged car??? The water-cooled center is for longevity of the turbo, not the oil.
The oil cooler is to drop the oil temp down, so it won't break the oil down sooner due to turbocharged cars having increase oil temperatures. The better you take care of your turbocharged vehicle the longer it will last.