Recieved Racing Mazda Header!!!!

[upsman]

3 letters AWR !

 

[Turbo Matty P]

how much is the AWR?

 

[Natey]

http://www.protege5online.com/For_Sale_Page/AWR_Header/awr_header.html

 

[Turbo Matty P]

holy God, I'd never pay $500 for a NA exhaust header!! My 67 Mustang headers were $200, my honda header was $190, my SHO headers were custom made and $350.....jeez H...$515 for (I'm guessing) 10hp.

 

[Natey]

70% of 700 is 490.

I agree, though. For 500 smackers, we could be 1/4 of the way to a turbo kit.

 

[upsman]

http://www.awrracing.com/

Their pic isnt representative of what it looks like. Check out mine at http://www.cardomain.com/id/sport20 to get a better look of the quality of the pipes. Superb welds too IMO.

They have them listed for $499 USD. I believe I got mine for $520 shipped to my door.

"IF" you have any fitment problems they will fix it with no problem like they did mine. My flange wasn't perfectly flat...they milled flat no prob.

And remember a couple things

You gotta pay to play

and

If something is cheap, the quality is most likely cheap also.

 

[Installshield 2]

upsman, what did you mean by removing the cooling fans...Do you just remove them for the installation to get more room, and the reinstall them after the header...Or do you have to leave them off indefinately...sorry if that is a dumbass question, but you and Equinox are the only ones I know of that actually has one...

 

[StarvingRussian]

That really sucks about those s*** headers.

 

[upsman]

Installshield2...nah you just remove them for the install. Very very easy to do. It makes it a whole lot easier to get the header situated.

 

[Turbo Matty P]

I know all about paying to play....my point is that this header is abrnormally expensive for what you get. more than double other 4cyl headers. For the same money I can purchase a brand new nitrous kit and have 50-75hp, as opposed to a *possible* 10 or so hp. Just doesn't make sense...

Also he said he paid $340shipped for his header.....70% of $340 is 238.....make sure to read the ENTIRE thread.

 

[p5sundevil]

yes but with the ntrous kit you are causing long term damage tot he engine. And it is not all the time power, it is only for the short time after you push the button and it sprays.

500 is about the highest I would ever pay for a header, and im not simply because I cant afford to. But of all the headers that I have seen made for this car the AWR one is the best, perfect welds, nice bends in the piping and great sound/power gains from an N/A header. And remember if you are staying N/A the header is just as important for power gains as custom cams/camgears, head flow work and exhaust systems.

You could always try the mazdaspeed header for 750 from corksport or the AutoExe header for about 950bux.

 

[Turbo Matty P]

dude, have you ever used nitrous in a vehicle before? Nitrous causes long term engine problems?? Where are you getting this information from? I've used Nitrous on several cars and they've lasted much longer than my other tubo cars! When a car uses a colder plug and an enhanced fuel system there is no danger to the motor. Especially on a 50hp shot. My 3.0L taurus ran a 100hp shot daily and was the smoothest running motor I've ever driven. It would redline like an RX-7 (8200rpms). It was silky smooth and ran a matching compression test to a bonestock showroom new car. the only damage caused to my cars by nitrous was the amount of rubber lost off of my wheels. If you're scared about using nitrous because you don't have all the details that's fine. But a header will not provide any power that you'll be able to notice from the drivers seat. You may gain 10hp on the extreme topend, but our cars already have a factory header. If anything an aftermarket unit will cause you to lose some of the low-end torque that makes our cars so peppy in daily driving. the only benefit I can see with an aftermarket header is removal of the pre-cat. However this will only provide a nominal gain and I cannot justify spending $500+ for little to know gain. Anyone that's run there car with and without Nitrous can justify it's worth.

 

[Installshield 2]

dude, have you ever used nitrous in a vehicle before? Nitrous causes long term engine problems?? Where are you getting this information from? I've used Nitrous on several cars and they've lasted much longer than my other tubo cars! When a car uses a colder plug and an enhanced fuel system there is no danger to the motor. Especially on a 50hp shot. My 3.0L taurus ran a 100hp shot daily and was the smoothest running motor I've ever driven. It would redline like an RX-7 (8200rpms). It was silky smooth and ran a matching compression test to a bonestock showroom new car. the only damage caused to my cars by nitrous was the amount of rubber lost off of my wheels. If you're scared about using nitrous because you don't have all the details that's fine. But a header will not provide any power that you'll be able to notice from the drivers seat. You may gain 10hp on the extreme topend, but our cars already have a factory header. If anything an aftermarket unit will cause you to lose some of the low-end torque that makes our cars so peppy in daily driving. the only benefit I can see with an aftermarket header is removal of the pre-cat. However this will only provide a nominal gain and I cannot justify spending $500+ for little to know gain. Anyone that's run there car with and without Nitrous can justify it's worth.

I don't know about this one man...First of all we do not have what is commonly referred to as a "header" stock...We have a piece of s***, rough, and restrictive "collector" that merges exhuast gasses hellishly quick, crams them into a restrictive catalyst, and then squirts them out to an equally restritive crush bent 90 degree downpipe...

I agree with you Nitrous can be perfectly reliable if kept realistic and used accordingly...Most of the time more parts and equipment than just what is supplied in the kit is needed for same as stock reliability however, you mentioned that above...

Look at it this way...if a header is one of the only modifications you are doing...**** the AWR one and get a cheap ass one...I haven't seen a single header other than the AWR piece for proteges that didn't look cheap ass...Some may exist but I haven't seen pics of one...The Racing Mazda one falls into this category, the first pics I saw of it I questioned its quality...

but if you are attempting to build a decent NA FS, don't puss out...The differences between a $500 AWR stainless header and a $340 Racing Mazda header won't be that huge gain wise on an otherwise stock FS...If you get big ass cams and raise the compression the research tony put into the flow design, bends, collectors, and flanges the differences will become much more noticable...Not just with power, but with reliability...it was desinged for use with extremely hot and high output NA Fs engines...you are getting an overly engineered system for about 160 dollars more than a header that was eye balled enough to fit and pretty much shipped...I doubt the designers of the mass produced or cheaper headers spent more than a week in a protege with their's installed...

to me AWR seems like the company looking only at performance...My bet is that it is more reliable, and overall better than any single header we have available..The Autoexe and MSP headers are simply JDM pedigrees, and you pay not only for the header itself but for the name and the "JDM"ness of it...

If you think it is too expensive or not worth it than don't buy it...If you are only doing a few mods before going with a turbo, then don't get a header period...But if you want to purchase a bunch of high quality pieces and make an equally reliable and stronger engine than stock...don't skimp out...

I am not trying to start a fight...so sorry if it came off that way...but every piece of the engine works together, the best most researched and tested pieces working together always give the best gains and performance...A bunch of less expensive, less researched pieces don't add up to much usually...I reliaze that a stock FS with a AWR header won't blow away a stock FS with a racing mazda header, but after the rest of the mods for a proper NA build up come in... that may not be the case...

 

[Turbo Matty P]

have you not seen the gains of the headers?? It's like 5whp and 3lb/ft. Now shoot straight with me....you're modding a motor one piece at a time....what are you spending $500 bucks on first? A header that yields 5hp or a 50hp shot of N20 that would yield about 60-65lb/ft??? Come on!! Also, I'm not sure what all you think needs to be added to make a nitrous system work safely. I just swapped out plugs ($16 for 4) to be overly cautious. The fuel system in our stock cars will easily handle a 50shot. also, about the header design. You think the minute and tiny differences between the headers will make any difference on a highly modified engine? I doubt it. If you admit that our stock exhaust manifold is so crappy then why doesn't a pretty decent header yield anymore than 5whp?? Do you think the header is just so bad that it doesn't make power? the point is that the header, while designed to help with emissions, isn't a bad design. Sure it's somewhat restrictive, but it's not the first thing to go and blow $500 on. I plan on waiting to see what happens with the Protege market since they're discontinuing the car. I want to see if prices drop as retailers look to liquidate inventory. Honestly, a header may be a good investment on a "highly built" motor, but the people who are going to sink that kind of money in the car are going turbo. Whats the point?

p.s. I understand. I'm not fighting either. Just trying to share my POV.

 

[Installshield 2]

Good points...and honestly I don't have very good answers for any of them...

IMO yes the differences between the two headers are worth the cost...and will show once more modifications are made...however I can't verify that with dyno data, becuase no one has yet done it...

The stock exhuast manifold and downpipe are the single most restrictive parts of a P5...next comes the ECU...if you are looking to free up the restrictive parts first, then a header should be the first investment...

Now the 5whp and 3/lb ft of torque claim from L8R's thread on his racing mazda header, at least to my knowlegde...Some one posted that their OBX header (which he also claimed looked identical, and may be the same as the Racing Mazda) may have gained 5whp and 3 lb ft of torque...I did not see any dyno sheets backing that...just his "butt dyno"...

I have never seen a header give that small of gains on an otherwise stock FS...No dyno sheet that I saw with a header had a gain of less than 12whp...which was a modified Bosal system a girl had fitted to her P5 on the Pclub...She also had the ZE intake/MS exhuast cam for a total gain of over 20whp...(124whp and 127lb/ft of torque total from what I remember)...

Equinox dyno'd his car with a mild steel AWR header (which is more in the 300 dollar area, but same dimensions) and an Injen CIA for a total of 131whp...That was in his sig, and I never saw the actual dyno sheet...I admit that seems a bit high, but I know for a fact how pathetic the stock exhuast manifold is through numerical data, and being that the stock pieces are mass produced some may be shittier than others...I will try and contact him and see what mods were made and if there indeed was a true dyno test...

the reason the stock FS pulls so decently at low rpm is more the cams than the restrictive exhuast manifold...With a decent header, which was verified by comparing the base runs and post header/before cam installation pulls on the pclub, you will gain power and torque in every rev range...the peak gain was just over 12whp, but it sustained power much closer to redline (in that area the gains were almost 19whp)...and this was even more impressive after the cams were installed...also the cams only caused her to loose a few lb/ft of torque at around 2900rpm...which would not be noticable to any driver...

I bet that OBX header is giving a lot more than he claimed...even 15whp is not extremely noticable in every condition, so just becuase it doesn't feel like much does not mean the numbers are small...

Also dude the nitrous thing: Since day one I have always said that the cheapest bang for buck ratio is nitrous by far...NA IS NOT the way to go for big gains, especially cheaply...Nitrous is the cheapest way to get 50whp...Turbo is the cheapest way to get over 220whp total realistically all the time...and NA is not really cheap to get you anything, other than 1 or 2whp...So I agree with you ten fold, nitrous is king for hp/$$...

It depends on where someone should spend the first 500 bucks...I wouldn't spend the first 500 on anything, and save it for a standalone...get the standalone tuned and free up any potential power restricted by the stock ECU...then hang every single excellent quality bolt on I could get my hands on...the AWR header would be one, then a perfect diameter exhuast for whatever my output goal is...I would never purchase any intake currently available, but do a lot of research and build a much better custom piece...Then mess with cams and internals/compression...

My goal right now is 180whp...I would love to do that NA...and actually I already sprung for the cams a few years ago...But my next mod will be a standalone controller...To me the price doesn't matter as long as it is what I need...If it comes out to be a little extra, I simply wait and save...cheaper shortcuts are great for getting things done quickly on most of our budgets, but that does not mean you will reach your goal as cheaply...If you don't have a minimum power goal than it really doesn't matter...but if a cheap header placed me well under 180whp with all the other mods it takes to get there, and a AWR header puts me right on it...the extra 160 bucks spent would be worth it...that may not be the case, but IMO those little difference between the two headers will become much more apperant with all the other mods working together...

 

[Installshield 2]

Also I think the aftermarket for the protege will continue to grow even after production and new protege sails drop...right around the same time is when many more proteges will be being purchased used...in which the new owner has more money to blow on parts...A lot more regular car owners bought proteges than we really know about...and there are thousands of them whose owners are just about to get rid of...cheaper used cars are much easier to get into kids hands, and with reliability tracks of the protege a lot of people will buy them as a good used car...then they will see what 2.0L's of strangled output is, and come here looking for upgrades...but they will have much more cash to blow most likely than someone who purchased one new...not always, but enough of them probably will to keep the aftermarket growing...

 

[Installshield 2]

And this post is a personal apology for rambling on too ******* long...

 

[twilightprotege]

someone should buy an AWR header for me to test i do have big cams, ported head and 9.7:1 compression after all...oh and 98ron octane unleaded all the time. and a haltech on the way in the near future

 

[Turbo Matty P]

twilight are you still running the stock manifold?? How does it feel? Do you feel like it's holding everything back? Also, I bet a header would benefit you greatly. With the mods you've done a header and full exhaust is a given! I'd like to see a dyno test between your motor as it sits, the AWR header and this header off the group buy. I bet there is no more than 5hp between the two headers and possibly only 15hp between stock and a header even on this built motor. Still 15hp is 15hp. I'm just betting that the difference is so minimal that it won't justfiy the $160.

 

[L8R]

anthony, did u install it?? i did, my car sounds HORRIBLE now - chris