Please Read! (about ephedrine in the news)

[big_ben]

Im sure all of you have heard of the drug Ephedrine, which in herbal form is called Mau Huang. This drug has been blamed for causing the death or injury of a few high school kids and a few adults whom already had heart problems prior to taking the supplement. These stories have been greatly exaggerated in the media. The part they conveniently leave out is the fact they the people that were injured or died took more than the recommended amount of these supplements and took them prior to participating in a strenuous sport.

The fact of the matter is that in America today, parents do not want to take the blame for anything their kids do. They blame violence on rap music and violent movies and games. They claim that the reason that their kids are fat is because McDonalds sells food that is too high in fat and markets it towards them. They blame the schools for their kids failing and not doing well on tests. They sue the high school coaches if their kid doesnt make a sports team they are trying out for. This is the typical pattern in America today. Parents are always pointing the finger to someone else because they do not want to bear any responsibility for their neglect of their kids and not teaching them values and good habits.

I want to ask all you a favor. I would like everyone reading this post to take note of a new bill that has been introduced in the Senate. This bill is Proposed Senate Bill 722. This bill is the attempt to dramatically alter the current marketplace and every dietary supplement would be at the mercy of government bureaucrats who are notoriously anti-supplement. Senate Bill 722 would give the FDA the power to disapprove the continued marketing of any supplement for which even one adverse event report is received.

This bill directly affects me because I am an avid workout junkie. If you feel that this is an unfair bill and its outcome will directly affect you, please take a minute out of your day if possible to email your local congressman and let them know you are in their voting constituency and that you want them to vote against this bill or you will not vote for them in the next election.

Thank you,
Ben

 

[MarkSpark]

I don't know. I say ban 'em all. Just my opinion.

 

[REMillers]

Agree I am tired of the extents to which we go about solving problems in some cases. No longer are parents, childern, or even consumers responseable for thier actions. I don't expect people not to make mistakes but please owe up to them.

In addition American citizens are practically scared to death of everything out there. Every night on the news that is all we end up hearing. "This will kill you, watch out for that, new death coming your way..blah blah blah". It is endless!!
Want to watch a good movie that covers this topic; Bowling for Columbine.

Not fully up to date on the subject you were discussing but will look more into it, thanks for the info.

 

[joshyellomp3]

someone always f*cks it up

 

[tmht]

Ephedra based products do need to go through a full FDA approval process. While many of the issues have been with people who have taken too much, there are others that have had it cause problems related to existing heart conditions. They didn't know about that interaction until it started happening to people. There is also the issue of how other ingredients in the supplement interact with Ephedra. I'm not saying ban the products or not allow them to be sold over the counter but they need to seriously test these products in a real clinical/lab environment to gain FDA approval before they are legal for sale.

I had actually contacted my representative about this bill about 3 weeks ago. Asking her to support it. Having seen firsthand the development process of one of these supplements and the people involved... This bill is a good thing.

That being said people do need to take responsibility for their actions and parents for their children.

 

[JunkPunch]

What I would suggest is everyone ACTUALLY READ THE BILL, then make up their own mind, instead of having strangers on the internet tell you what to do. Personally I am against the bill because I think it is over-reaching, but you can decide on your own.

 

[big_ben]

I agree that there needs to be more testing, but this bill does not solve that.

This bill is an effort to easily remove any OTC supplement that any hypochondriac complains about. This is why I dissagree with it.

For instance, I'll use myself as an example. I drink a protien shake prior to going to bed on the days that I lift weights. I have an extremely wierd reaction to these protien shakes sometimes. It feels like it gets caught up in a ball just above the entrance to my stomach. Sorta like a Hietal Hernia. It feel like a cramp in my chest. But, the protien helps me greatly to recover the torn muscle tissue much faster than normal. So I endure this small amount of pain it causes me because the pain of torn muscle tissue is much worse and last much longer if I don't drink the shakes.

So the point of my story is this. If I and others who get the same reaction from drinking protien shakes were to complain about this they would then try to ban that also.

When does it stop? Are they gong to ban tuna because it contains too much protien? Will they ban all soda drinks because they contain lots of caffein? Asprin contains large amounts of caffein also. Asprin comes from the bark of the willow tree which is the source of caffein. So in a sense, asprin is an herbal drug, and many doctors say that Asprin is the wonder drug of the 20th century. Caffein is an addictive drug you know. Some say it's more addictive than nicotien. Will they ban that?

 

[ghetto waggon]

I am 18 years old

At the age of 15 I approached 285 lbs. I had an amazing 43% body fat. My last pant size was a 44".

I went on a "crash diet", consisting of only sugar free jellow and cheese flavored pretzels.

I kicked my ass every day(excercising), until the point I was running 3 miles in the morning, and 3 miles at night.

I pushed the envelope day in and day out for four months. I was in a depressive state, and could've cared less at that point what the result was.

At the end of 5 months, I shaved my weight down to a mere 148lbs. Standing 6'2", this is quite small. That last two weeks of training was the worst, where only two pounds were lost, with occuring blackouts, from a low blood sugar level.

Needless to say I did it without any information whatsoever.

I soon found that eating anything with any substial weight to it gave me considerable gains within the hour. I was terrified by this.

So, I began to involve myself in boards like this, relating to fitness, and too became an avid "fitness junkie". Since I've lost the weight I have redirected my efforts to weight lifting and FAT reduction. In looking back, I definetly would have done fat reduction, versus crashing, where nearly all muscle mass was lost in addition to the majority of my body fat (still a questionably high 9% at the end of that "trip")

Since I have experimented with every type of food in the book, for periods of a week at a time. I now know my body inside and out, and can easily control body fat, liquid levels, energy levels, and most importiantly acne.

I have done hours upon hours of online and interactive research on the ma-huang/ephedra issue.

I believe that it is a drug that is extremely mis-used throughout the general public.

Depending on many physical characteristics of the body, different people are affected differently by the drug. I had an extremely high tolerance for it, as I found myself (in these little unoffical experiments) to be pushing twice the dosage before I noticed any real adverse affect.

You have to realize that 75%-80% of the people taking ephedra today DO NOT follow the incremented loading schedule that the manufacturers reccommend.

For example- the overweight girls here at work seem to think that a diet pill (no matter what the sort) is the cure to their weight problem. With this, they have no plans of changing their diet, and if anything, "going to the gym" once a week. (thinks of nutty professor...)

On the other end of the spectrum, in high school it was the over confident football players that decide to pop a few servings of Ripped fuel with some red bull right before the game.

Both of these instances are extremely innerving to me, and I am for the ban to end common situations like these.

Like I previously mentioned, different body types- meso, endo, ecto-morhps all react very differently.

As proven, it can be done without ephedra. Needless to say, I am working a 70 hour work week between two jobs. Time is extremely pressed for me. I sometimes manage to lift twice a week, and run almost every night at 11:30, before bed.

I find, like everything, what goes up must come down, so the rush that you may get from ephedra will crash and hit the floor. Which at the time works for me

IMHO, ephedra is like any other drug, obviously more potent (weight ratio), but can easily be compared to caffeine and the like. In most cases, it is almost always safe to encounter some of the drug on a daily basis (i/e cofee in the morning, to compare).
And, just like everything else, the ante is upped for those who are more athletic (higher doses tolerated). Problems sometimes arise when ephedra is "stacked" with other drugs (like a 3 in 1 pill). In this case caffeine would be a catalyst to the ephedra, making the effects much stronger.

It is not meant to be taken at full dose, with all of variables at high risk: i/e- empty stomach + intense exercise + exercise in hot sun + NOT DRINKING YOUR WATER!

s***, I can go on forever about it.

Point is: Today, July 24, 2003, ephedra generally speaking is in the wrong hands. Fat people thinking this magic pill will make them skinny, arrogant show off athletes who think they need some giant pump (that lasts 15 minutes), and others who just want to see if popping a few pills makes them look like the guy on the label of the bottle. People take them religiously and see no results (even side effects), so they up the dosage on their own. Once the risky variables are added, s*** hits the fan and you could easily die of stroke or encounter circulatory hell in a matter of seconds.

I think ephedra is a wonderful drug. It can and does work wonders if it is used correctly. But, ben, there are very few like yourself who give forth the effort to learn the drug and its side effects.

As to the mcdonalds issue, I think s*** food should cost more. It makes perfect sense to me.

Anyone who takes a close look will immediately see that america's population is very unhealthy. Even those who are skinny and may look "HOT!"....yeah they may be hot as hell now, but while youre sitting there watching them eat their 3rd snickers bar, the nutrients are still being utilized, whether they get fat or not, the bloodstream is contaminated. Whether it's apparent gains in body fat or internal "gunking", its happening.

Anyways, I think the ephedra should be much harder to get. How exactly? I'm not sure. I dont know the system well enough to guess.

And simple advice to anyone reading this for weight loss help, I firmly believe that your diet accounts for 30% of your success, exercise load being 65%, and 5% being any suppliments you wish to trick in there. Obviously these are fluid and can easily change as well.

90% of the results come with 10% of the effort. The other 10% of the results come from 90% of the work.

Thats why we have ephedra

 

[shaunmp5]

I agree with JunkPunch. Ephedra alkaloids are stimulants. If you have an existing heart problem, your doctor will advise you that the last thing you want to consume are stimulants. This also includes large servings of caffeine. Also, have you ever heard of "Bronkaid" or other OTC asthma medications? Do you know what the primary ingredient is? It's ephedrine hydrochloride. Have you heard of any ephedrine overdoses in the past twenty years from asthma sufferers who take up to 100mg of ephedrine hcl a day? Doubtful. (By the way, the average dose of ephedra alkaloids in an OTC energy/fat-burner product is usually 20mg.)

The FDA is not a kind parental figure that is looking out for your personal safety. They are a special interest-motivated part of our central government. If you ban ephedrine, then you'd better take aspirin(stomach bleeding, etc.), and all the NSAID pain relievers with it. Did you know that after two days of taking Tylenol (acetiminophen), your liver enzymes will be greatly elevated? That's not a good thing. But, you see, there is no herbal competition for Tylenol, so it's doubtful you'll ever see any legislation to ban it.

And what about TOBACCO and ALCOHOL?????? Don't these "supplements" have a real history of KILLING people??? Just my $.02.

 

[ghetto waggon]

I agree, the media issue with ephedra is EXTREMELY overrated.

How many people have died worldwide now? Arent we at like...15?

That's 15 dumbasses or 15 pussies who didn't follow the directions on the bottle.

 

[ghetto waggon]

Sorry, I guess I am a little out of date...looks as if we're approaching 50

But still

Take a look at the "hobby" of "Roba-chugging"
It's the hottest new thing at all the campuses. Chug a bottle of robatussin and feel the buzz!

Sure, there are some chemicals causing "the buzz", but what about all the other chemicals ?

Ban Robatussin?

 

[tmht]

Sorry, I guess I am a little out of date...looks as if we're approaching 50

But still

Take a look at the "hobby" of "Roba-chugging"
It's the hottest new thing at all the campuses. Chug a bottle of robatussin and feel the buzz!

Sure, there are some chemicals causing "the buzz", but what about all the other chemicals ?

Ban Robatussin?

There have been at least that many related to Metabolife alone. Why do you think they are under ivestigation?

 

[CivicEater]

I have a partial solution to weight problems...

meat.. meat you buy in the store, or at burger king, or pretty much anywhere, is FULL of steroids and growth hormones given to the cattle etc to promote faster turnaround on beef or other meat stock.

anyone who honestly thinks that those hormones aren't transferred into your own body, is sadly misguided.

I am a vegetarian. I used to be a vegetarian because my parents told me to. Now i'm a vegetarian because i've finally realized what harm i'd do to my body if i ate meat.

1 in 400 cows get checked for cancer... that's USDA approval.. 1 in 25,000 chickens gets checked..

It amazes me taht people think they NEED meat to live.. First of all, our intestinal tracts are not designed to digest meat. they're too long. Look at most carnivores.. their intestinal tract is much shorter than ours.. y'know why? because the longer the meat remains in the body, the more it rots, causing toxins to be released during the rotting process..

I think america should look more into health and less into drugs.

As far as the government wanting to control drugs i say nah.. If people want to abuse their bodies by adding uneeded chemicals, let em.. We need to thin out the dumb people anyway..

 

[shaunmp5]

CivicEater,

I'm sorry, guy, but your post is absurd. You obviously have no clue about anabolic steroids, for starters. Some ranchers do inject certain types of steroids into their livestock. Notice I said "inject." Injectable steroids aren't ORALLY bioavailable, meaning you couldn't absorb it internally. Second, if they are using growth hormones, they aren't using HUMAN growth hormone. And, even if they were, you couldn't absorb it.
Meat rotting inside the body? Your body completely acidifies meat before it ever gets to your intestines.
We aren't built for digesting meat? Okay, then explain why our early ancestors ate predominately meat. (Hunter/gatherer societies)
Many modern-day diseases came into existence with the development of farming grains. Processed foods and hydrogenetated oils are far worse on the human body than meat, which is primarily made up of amino acids, which your body DEPENDS on.

 

[CivicEater]

flesh is not the only source of amino acids..

i can see your point of view about you thinking i'm absurd.. That's what all meat eaters say when i tell them my reasons for not eating meat.. It's like you've all been programmed to believe that without meat you'll die.. Understandable but sad..

I'm not going to argue with you, because you're clearly set in your opinion.

I just wanted to point out that meat is a prime cause of obesity in america today.

 

[shaunmp5]

Look, I have a BS in Nutrition from UC Davis, I own my own nutrition store, and I'm a nationally licensed trainer. You really have NO idea what you are talking about. I didn't say that I'm an avid meat-eater, either. Again, you ASSUME way too much.

I'm sure you think that you are "contributing" with your statements, but you aren't. Have YOU ever found a scientific study in an accredited journal to support your "facts?"

Meat is the #1 cause of obesity in the U.S.? Well, dignified scientists all over the world would love for you to explain that one! "Red" meat has saturated fat, which can ATTRIBUTE to unwanted body fat. BUT only in the presence of CARBOHYDRATES.

Don't believe me? Okay, stop your current diet and ONLY eat lean meats for a week. Though clearly not a sound diet, you WILL lose bodyfat!

Please don't give any more OPINIONS and state them as FACT. That's how all the MISinformation that got to you got started in the first place.

Nothing personal.

 

[blynzoo]

Ephedra is a killer for many reasons.

Methamphetamine, the fastest-growing drug in the US, cannot be made without ephedrine. The active ingredient is ephedrine (along with derivatives from ether/toluene and annhydrous ammonia). Ephedrine DOES cause heart problems, even in "normal" doses recommended by the supplement companies. The products are marketed as weight loss/muscle building/stay awake products, "all-natural" and "herbal." If you have heart murmurs and take these products there is a risk of heart failure the first time.
I have tried the products myself, I am very active. Ephedrine-based products do speed metabolism, but because of the way they force your body to increase its metabolism, you burn muscle tissue before you normally would. Imagine you are in a freezing condition. Your body just burns everything that comes its way. Normally your body burns fat first (mostly) and then burns muscle when it must. Ephedrine-based products encourage the body to burn more muscle than it normally would. It is still possible to gain muscle mass using the products, but you are actually hindering possible greater growth.

I used to work for the State Police, and have seen what ephedrine does when younger kids take it. Loss of short-term memory, etc. And of course there is methamphetamine, which is as addictive as crack, and just as harmful.

I now work in a federal office where we receive constituent calls all day offering their opinion on issues and bills. 722 has come up many times. The bill is actually driven by PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES who see the growing trend for people to self-medicate with supplements, as opposed to buying products, as well as an increase in DOCTORS who feel that supplements offer a cheaper, less extreme way to solve a problem. Instead of buying prozac, you buy St. JOhn's etc. They are anticipating a rise in supplement research and technology which could undercut their synthetic business. It is for THAT reason that I would personally oppose 722 (were I allowed to do so), not because it would keep me from popping workout pills.

 

[blynzoo]

Edit: There is nothing wrong with taking ephedrine safely, forgot to throw that in my last post. I myself have found better results without it, not to mention the lack of sex drive that many stimulants offer, at least temporarily.

 

[shaunmp5]

blynzoo,

Now you're doing it. Ephedrine is "Anti-catabolic." That means it is muscle-sparing. That's the reason it is the bodybuilder's thermogenic of choice.

You just wrote that ephedrine CAUSES heart problems. Where is the supporting scientific evidence? Don't you think more educated people than you or I have been searching for a link between the two?

 

[shaunmp5]

By the way, you can also synthesize methamphetamine from "Sudafed." (Pseudoephedrine) But that doesn't mean that comparing the two have ANY relevance whatsoever!