PG pump vs. Walbro 255lb ?

[mazdaspeedjay]

ok i did a search first once again but didn't find whati was looking for. First question is i like the PG cam driven pump upgraded. they recommend that you use some kind of stand alone when you install it. Is that a must have or how well does the pg cam drive pump work on a stock pcm with alot or some bolt ons ( i.e. CAI, turbo down pipe or exhaust and boost controller with FCD) . ok second question if you need more fuel would installing a walbro 255lb fuel pump in the tank and leave the cam driven alone would be just as good for alittle extra fuel or is the fact that it's direct injected mean that the tank pump is just used to get the fuel to the high pressure pump and changing the tank pump makes no difference or will actually hurt you more then help since the cam pump does all the work ? opions on this please. and what works best and whats needed to get more fuel when needed properlly, thanks

 

[Vengure]

A walbro 255 would do you no justice because its not the tank pump causing the fuel shortage. The upgraded PG cam driven pump has helped resolved fuel shortage issues a bit so getting a walbro is a waste of money for a stock car.

 

[mazdaspeedjay]

yea thats what i thought but wanted to make sure. does PG sell a uprgade cam driven pump that will add more fuel as needed but not require a stand alone to tune it for the time being. or if you run the upgraded pg you must use something or some kind of stand alone to tune your new added and increased fuel

 

[Haltech]

You dont need to tune the CDFP at this stage until you start pushing a big turbo with 18+ psi. It will work just fine as is.

 

[mazdaspeedjay]

ok i was reading up on a old post. can you get a upgraded pump straight from them with no down time. i.e. they were saying i must take my car to them for them to do the mod. i work on these cars for a living so i really don't feel the need from someone else to put a part on my car that i can. all i would need is for them to give me a modified pump i want to keep my stocker just in case guess that was their option 3 in their old post but they made it seem like i just couldn't order a modified pump from them and put it on my self. i understand what they meant about the customer modifying it themselves. BUT if i have to do that it's a good thing they're local to me.

 

[mazdaspeedjay]

i read their post they said it will work with the stock system. WTF i did a search on here for it and nothing came up but i did a search on google and i found it threw there . thanks for your input it's greatly appreciated

 

[JumpingJackson]

A walbro 255 would do you no justice because its not the tank pump causing the fuel shortage. The upgraded PG cam driven pump has resolved any fuel shortage issues so getting a walbro is a waste of money.

And you know this how? Have you tested a walbro, no because only 1 person has it (ATE BALLER) and its not even fitted in a reliably reproducable fashion.
Walbro's are too long and wide to fit in the fuel bucket. Research is being done on the "other" forum for a drop in replacement and getting both it and the stock pump flow tested. The theory is that if you can provide extra pressure to the stock CDFP it will amplify its output by pushing more pressure to it.

 

[mrlilguy157]

120$ for a brand new inline walboro 255lph.

when i go big turbo, 120$ isn't going to hurt the wallet, and its more of a guarantee that you won't run out of fuel. Why not go with an inline?

 

[ATE BALLER]

A walbro 255 would do you no justice because its not the tank pump causing the fuel shortage. The upgraded PG cam driven pump has resolved any fuel shortage issues so getting a walbro is a waste of money.

Yes, the shortage is at the fault of the cdfp, however increasing the pressure at the inlet (which is exactly what upgrading the in-tank pump will do), the cdfp's output will increase as well, like a booster. For me (the only one currently with an upgraded in-tank fuel pump), this has eliminated my fuel cut thus far. 2,000 miles strong with no ill-effects, and no fuel cut, even in subfreezing temperatures. Fuel cut disappeared after removing the atp bck, the day after installing the itfp. The problem with the Walbro is that it doesn't fit right, but there is one that does. It's being installed and tested on a vehicle this weekend, and there will be some data backing up everything I've said in the following week. The other pump also flows 265lph, so it's a little stronger than the Walbro too, and it should also be about $15 cheaper if it's the one I think it is.

Oh, and the cdfp upgrade hasn't solved the fuel cut problems either. Anyone who's tried to tune with one has still gotten fuel cut. I'm not saying I wouldn't have the same problems if I tried to tune my car, but don't think the upgraded cdfp is a cure-all.

 

[ATE BALLER]

120$ for a brand new inline walboro 255lph.

when i go big turbo, 120$ isn't going to hurt the wallet, and its more of a guarantee that you won't run out of fuel. Why not go with an inline?

Very good point. Here's my thoughts; To do an inline, you'll have to replace or change at least part of the hardlines. Then you'll have to add a regulator which means you'll have to make another penetration into the tank for the regulator's return. If the drop in works out, you pay $85 for that (if it's the one I think it is), and rent the tool to get into the tank for whatever Whoosh and all of us that bought the tool descide. The tool was $180 IIRC and it had to ship from Japan, so we'll probably charge a core of the whole cost to get another one here, and upon return of the tool refund all but like $20 or whatever we descide the rental is worth. Or if you're just plain rich, you can get ahold of one for yourself. Or if you work at Mazda you can probably borrow it for 10 minutes. Just my $0.02.

 

[Vengure]

Yes, the shortage is at the fault of the cdfp, however increasing the pressure at the inlet (which is exactly what upgrading the in-tank pump will do), the cdfp's output will increase as well, like a booster. For me (the only one currently with an upgraded in-tank fuel pump), this has eliminated my fuel cut thus far. 2,000 miles strong with no ill-effects, and no fuel cut, even in subfreezing temperatures. Fuel cut disappeared after removing the atp bck, the day after installing the itfp. The problem with the Walbro is that it doesn't fit right, but there is one that does. It's being installed and tested on a vehicle this weekend, and there will be some data backing up everything I've said in the following week. The other pump also flows 265lph, so it's a little stronger than the Walbro too, and it should also be about $15 cheaper if it's the one I think it is.

Oh, and the cdfp upgrade hasn't solved the fuel cut problems either. Anyone who's tried to tune with one has still gotten fuel cut. I'm not saying I wouldn't have the same problems if I tried to tune my car, but don't think the upgraded cdfp is a cure-all.

I never meant the cdfp was the cure all of course if you go with larger injectors and and bigger turbo and tuning you'll need a itfp to get that inlet pressure. Though most people who've had issues with fuel cut on stock cars install the cdfp and it will usually help the issue. It'll be nice once all the air fuel issues are better under control but I guess that will need lots of testing and tuning.

 

[ATE BALLER]

Yes, on lightly modded cars, either pump upgraded should get rid of fuel cut. I've only got a cai, catless tbe, bov, ebc, and the itfp. I had an atp bck, but I got really bad fuel cut with it on after I installed the itfp. Taking that off made a world of difference.

 

[nig3]

wouldnt it be funny if the intank pump was the cause of all these problems, hahaha all the people that spent $400 on the cdfp wasted there money cause its the intank pump that couldnt keep up with the oem cdfp!!! just a thought, IDK we need to research this more. what size in tank fuel pump comes stock in the ms3 compared to the 255lph walbro???

 

[nig3]

Now that i think about this more it would make perfect sense that the intake pump would be reason for fuel delivery problems over the CDFP, because even on my wrx once i hit 230whp i had to upgrade to the 255lph walbro to support my 270whp with my vf34 turbo. and it seems that people pushing over 260whp are having problems with sputtering. what size is the oem intank pump in LPH???

 

[Captain KRM P5]

wouldnt it be funny if the intank pump was the cause of all these problems, hahaha all the people that spent $400 on the cdfp wasted there money cause its the intank pump that couldnt keep up with the oem cdfp!!! just a thought, IDK we need to research this more. what size in tank fuel pump comes stock in the ms3 compared to the 255lph walbro???

if the in tank pump was the root cause of the problem, then people would not be benefitting the way they are by upgrading the cam driven pump. the larger cam driven pump cannot 'draw' more fuel from the tank on its own because that is not how it works - the in tank pump must supply the fuel to it. so if the in tank pump was the root cause of all the vehicle's fuel problems, upgrading the cam driven pump would do nothing at all, and we know it does. will upgrading the in tank pump be beneficial as well as the cam driven pump? on high horsepower cars i absolutely think so. it certainly cannot hurt, but it is not the main key to solving these cars' problems.

 

[boost_me]

....church! preach on!

 

[nig3]

if the in tank pump was the root cause of the problem, then people would not be benefitting the way they are by upgrading the cam driven pump. the larger cam driven pump cannot 'draw' more fuel from the tank on its own because that is not how it works - the in tank pump must supply the fuel to it. so if the in tank pump was the root cause of all the vehicle's fuel problems, upgrading the cam driven pump would do nothing at all, and we know it does. will upgrading the in tank pump be beneficial as well as the cam driven pump? on high horsepower cars i absolutely think so. it certainly cannot hurt, but it is not the main key to solving these cars' problems.

hmmm i see your point but one more question what is being upgraded when you buy the pg pump exactly are you increasing the size of the pump allowing more to flow or are you increasing the pumping action allowing more psi??

 

[Captain KRM P5]

the internal components of the pump are being changed out. the physical size of the cam driven pump would not do anything if it were changed. a larger diameter and higher flowing hydraulic shaft and piston assembly are installed into the pumps.

 

[whooosh]

if the in tank pump was the root cause of the problem, then people would not be benefitting the way they are by upgrading the cam driven pump. the larger cam driven pump cannot 'draw' more fuel from the tank on its own because that is not how it works - the in tank pump must supply the fuel to it. so if the in tank pump was the root cause of all the vehicle's fuel problems, upgrading the cam driven pump would do nothing at all, and we know it does. will upgrading the in tank pump be beneficial as well as the cam driven pump? on high horsepower cars i absolutely think so. it certainly cannot hurt, but it is not the main key to solving these cars' problems.

I'm glad to see that you agree with something you don't sell

upgrading a fuel system usually isn't done with one part
improving the fuel "system" will be key as HP levels increase

in-tank>cam pump>injectors>tuner to control it
obviously for High HP applications

 

[nig3]

I bet one of those fuel pump amplifiers would yield similar results.
like this --->> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MSD-...048511711QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item140048511711

what do you think??