P5 Noise while cold, still??

[fastdrvr23]

Does anyone else have the annoying noise(mild ticking/grumble) from 2750 to 3000 RPMS on a cold engine, for about the first 5 minutes of driving?? I have this happen every morning, and just wanted to see (without pulling up an old post) if anyone else currently experiences this. Thanks everybody...

 

[Hawkeye]

yes, this is a known issue with most Protege5's. A search under cold start or rattle will yield you more info. Basically, the car starts off that way to meet some ULEV standards, but once it warms up, it idles and revs more smoothly.

 

[fastdrvr23]

Yeah, I had replied to all the search results I got back a long time ago... I was hoping now someone had heard if we have an ECU fix for this junk. Oh well... Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[Hawkeye]

There is a way to bypass the vacuum on the sylenoid (sp?) that control the cold-start emissions or something like that. Some folks have taken this out of the system and eliminated the noise. Another way is to simply unplug the sylenoid, but that will mean the check engine light comes on. The sylenoid is located above the engine, under the stabilizer bar, and it has a green plug. Unplug it and give it a shot, but your check engine light will come on. I will do some research on how to bypass the vaccuum switch.

 

[Sir Nuke]

it there....but so barely noticable...in fact for me to be able to hear it I have to start the car...lift the hood...and rev it a little with my head under the hood to hear it....for the longest time I didn't even know mine had the noise....I wonder if there are varrying amouts of the rattle.....so I shut the hood...and drive on....I just take it easy for a few till the temp comes up..then ZOOM ZOOM ZOOM~!~!~

 

[Drumgod]

start up noise

I have had the same prob for a year now. Just went to dealer last week for 20k service, and asked again for details on this. This is and has been there exact responce in writing. " Customer may experience an engine rattle under light to moderate acceleration with engine coolant temps are below 149 deg f and engine rpm's between 1500 to 2500.- Confirm noise only occurs within the VTCS(Variable Tumble Control System) operation "valve closed" period (when engine coolant temp is below 149).
This noise is currently believed to be the result of the timing between VTCS plates "opening", and the ignition spark advance command. This is an operating characteristic of this engine and no repair attempts should be made. Although the noise is present only during cold start up and dissapears once the engine coolant reaches 149 deg. fer., Mazda realizes that it is an annoyance to some customers and its engineers are investigating possible countermeasures in an effort to address customer dissatisfaction."

Unbeliavable-- I say. Hey, by the way Mazda it is also the first thing anyone hears in there first ride in my new car, not to mention the car runs like ass until the valve opens-, And I hate to tell you guys it gets worse with more miles on the car. This is effecting timing, and is obviously going to shorten the life of the motor. It is going to be a costly repair, and there not moving fast enough. I have been asking for a year, and nothing. I have a new car and am not going to unplug any sensors. Find a FIX.
I can't believe they call this an annoyance. I know your owned by Ford, but I overlooked that, because this car is a complete import, but please don't act like them. If anyone has new info, please let me know. Thanks Drumgod

 

[YellowMP5]

i still have the noise but it hardly bothers me. i never drive the car anyway for the first minute or so when i start it. i just let it idle and warm up. not a big concern to me. also i am not saying Drumgod you are wrong, but i doubt this will decrease engine life. i am not worried. there are other things to worry about. like how to install a turbo, use the heck out of it and still get the usuall life expectancy from this motor (whatever it might be) without it dying prematurely

 

[Onatrum]

I have to agree with YellowMP5.

I always let my car run until the temp. gauge starts rising...whether it's warm or cold outside. It's a good practice, since it helps get the oil flowing before driving.

I'm sure everybody knew that but I think driving on a "cold" engine will do more harm in the long run, than this noise problem.

I also understand that some people's mornings are more frantic or rushed than other people's...so letting the car warm up isn't always an option.

Want a little tip to warm up your car and not hear the noise? Buy some slippers, and when you about to leave, go out, start your car, go back inside, and put your shoes on...brush your teeth...comb your hair...or whatever that will take a couple minutes, and then the car warms while you're finishing getting ready, and you don't have to listen to that sound. Ya killed two birds with one stone.

lol This is all my opinion of course, and I wouldn't recommend leaving your car running in a neighborhood with high theft lol

 

[rodslinger]

You can drive your car as soon as it is started with no ill effects. Just don't flog it while it's cold....

 

[noodles]

I have to agree with YellowMP5.

I always let my car run until the temp. gauge starts rising...whether it's warm or cold outside. It's a good practice, since it helps get the oil flowing before driving.

I'm sure everybody knew that but I think driving on a "cold" engine will do more harm in the long run, than this noise problem.

I also understand that some people's mornings are more frantic or rushed than other people's...so letting the car warm up isn't always an option.

Want a little tip to warm up your car and not hear the noise? Buy some slippers, and when you about to leave, go out, start your car, go back inside, and put your shoes on...brush your teeth...comb your hair...or whatever that will take a couple minutes, and then the car warms while you're finishing getting ready, and you don't have to listen to that sound. Ya killed two birds with one stone.

lol This is all my opinion of course, and I wouldn't recommend leaving your car running in a neighborhood with high theft lol

And leave your keys in the car while it's running and you're inside? That's a good invitation for thieves.

 

[jkb]

I dropped Mazda NA operations a note and asked about the status of the problem and got the following response:

Dear Jim,

Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate
the opportunity to respond to you.

I appreciate and understand your inquiry.

My goal is to make your ownership experience an enjoyable one, and so to ensure this I have spoken with our Product Support Engineers regarding your inquiry. They have advised that the fix will involve a re-flash of the PCM. Please understand, all modifications need to be evaluated and approved by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and we are just waiting for their clearance at this point.

I can assure you that the valve chatter your experiencing, on a cold start, stops once the coolant in the engine reaches 147 degrees. Depending on the weather conditions in your area, this is a matter of seconds. Also, this doesn't affect the durability of the engine in any way. I do apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you.

The response was very quick, so it seems that they are aware that we want a fix, and that they really are working on it. Since the VTCS system is an emissions device, it stands to reason that mucking with it would require EPA approval - mostly to verify that the car still meets its stated emissions levels.

Anyway, while I'm not gonna hold my breath waiting for a fix, it seems that we will eventually get one.

Though I do have to take issue with the "matter of seconds" comment. Even on a relatively warm day, it's a couple of minutes before the water gets to temp and my car stops clacking.

Regarding warm-up, you'll get as many different opinions as the people you ask. The one I was taught is that engines were designed to run under load, and that it is prefereable to warm them up under normal operating parameters, in other words: drive gently while the engine warms up. Not that I think that warming under idle's gonna hurt your motor (but doing it for a half hour will piss of your neighbors - particularly if you have a diesel F250... oh, wait - that's the "my annoying neighbors" thread.)

Just another school of thought.

-jim

 

[rodslinger]

I just got my copy of Autoweek and they had the P5 report in there. The cold engine rattle was noted by them as a primary complaint and was noted by a consumer letter also. Maybe with enough attention drawn to it Mazda will speed up the fix...

 

[hihoslva]

I also understand that some people's mornings are more frantic or rushed than other people's...so letting the car warm up isn't always an option.

Want a little tip to warm up your car and not hear the noise? Buy some slippers, and when you about to leave, go out, start your car, go back inside.....

*cough* REMOTE START *cough*

 

[Adam R]

Kawkeye.....
Who ever told you that about the engine rattle is very wrong. Mazda has new ECU's on the way for June and July, as the current ones installed are not calibrated properly. What you are hearing is bad timing, and thus valve chatter. When the engine warms up the heat and engine oil cover the noise up quite nicely.
Mazda sent me a letter admitting what was wrong. My brother is a machanic for BMW, he checked it himself.

 

[Hawkeye]

Kawkeye.....
Who ever told you that about the engine rattle is very wrong. Mazda has new ECU's on the way for June and July, as the current ones installed are not calibrated properly. What you are hearing is bad timing, and thus valve chatter. When the engine warms up the heat and engine oil cover the noise up quite nicely.
Mazda sent me a letter admitting what was wrong. My brother is a machanic for BMW, he checked it himself.

who's Kawkeye? Anyway, I could be wrong. However, why does the noise stop when one disconnects the sylenoid I spoke of above? I know it's a timing issue. From what I've heard, the sylenoid in question control cold-start timing.

 

[rodslinger]

What you are hearing is bad timing, and thus valve chatter. When the engine warms up the heat and engine oil cover the noise up quite nicely.

Actually you are wrong as I was in the past. I had convinced myself that it was a cold start piston slap so much that I was just about to tear into the motor to prove it. And I'm not timid around a car either. I finally experimented with the VTCS system using a manual vacuum pump with the engine in the suspect RPM range. It doesn't matter if the engine is hot or cold, that thing will rattle when closed. Don't believe me? Run a vac line directly to the VTCS actuator from the manifold bypassing the solenoid. The only thing that prevents the rattle once engine temp reaches 149F is the computer deactivates the solenoid so the VTCS plates reopen.

 

[firefly]

I'm not sure if you guys notice this. But for the past couple days I notice as the engine warms up the car will shudder for once. Usually you won't notice it unless you're stopped with the engine at idle.

Here's the detail: I usually drives off after started the car for 1 min or so. About 30 seconds after the temp gauge stops climbing I notice the engine shakes a bit...and along with that the idle speed drops to about 4-500rpm. Then it'll raise back to the normal speed. This all happens within a second and like I said you probably won't notice it unless you're stopped with engine at idle.

So...anyone have the same experience? And could that (studder/idle dropping) be caused by the VTCS valve switches open?