p5 idle issue when warming up and fuel gauge stuck?

[hitnf]

Hi there,

We have a 2002 Protege 5, with ~102000 km, and lately, about a set distance from a cold start, (sitting overnight) the car will want to stall, idle rough.. until we put in neutral and step on the gas. This happens at a stoplight.... as stop signs not sitting idle too long. It does this once in a trip from a to b on a cold, overnight start.

But after starting up with 30 mins later, its fine... doesn't do it..

We tried cleaning the MAF sensor and no luck. I saw the EGR cleaning guide, would this apply to automatics too?

Is it common for these fuel gauges to get stuck at the halfway mark? any fixes for that?

Thank you,

 

[pasadena_commut]

Is it common for these fuel gauges to get stuck at the halfway mark? any fixes for that?

The fuel gauge on my old 323 used a contacting wiper that moved along a rod that was wrapped with wire. Basically a huge variable resistor. When the wire snapped it failed and it always read empty. It is possible I suppose that there is something stuck on the wires so that the wiper cannot get past a certain point. The other possibility is that the display needle is hanging up on something. If you can find the wires coming out of the tank for the fuel level measurement you should be able to check the voltage across them and see if that "sticks" at the same place the needle does, which would tell you which end was the problem.

Autos have an EGR too.

 

[hitnf]

thank you for the quick reply....
contacting, wiper and rod is located where about?

I'm going to have to look at the service manual.... for the wire things....

the EGR cleaning might fix our idling problem?

thank you

 

[hitnf]

hi there again... the gauge seems fine, good to know though.....

haven't cleaned the egr, due to reading more on the thread, and access.... and bolts might be hard, break....

We are going to look into cleaning the IAC, like in the post on the EGR cleaning..

We also sometimes the car is hard to start... takes lots of cranks before starting.......

We did the plugs about two years ago..... 30,000 kms ago....

As soon as we touch the throttle its fine... I'm not thinking its fuel pump... or fuel filter....

Thank you

 

[CheeseHelmet]

It really sounds like an EGR problem, especially since it gets better as the engine warms up. Don't waste your time with the IAC, clean the EGR, and plan to replace it in the near future.

 

[hitnf]

thank you for the input, its doing it, even when the car is warmed up too now....

 

[CheeseHelmet]

It's still probably the EGR valve. You should also make sure the tube that goes from the MAF to the throttle body isn't cracked (be sure to check the underside of the tube), that could also give you a crappy idle.

 

[hitnf]

thank you CheeseHelmet, lol for the nick... will look into that, thank you was not aware of the pipe at all......

I did notice some dome, round looking thing that has a crack in it.... behind the IAC... facing up towards the hood.... will try to take pictures tomorrow... it has pipes coming from somewhere too....

 

[hitnf]

Alright, so today, we tried doing lots of things according to the forum, and service manual...

Tried disconnecting maf, idle did not move as much, but car still ran rough, misses, stalls at times... rpms down to zero.. hard to start, other times easier....

We changed the plugs, cleaned out the IAC, the plunger comes out of the sensor, normal? I did disconnect it like the service manual says.

Noticed for a few months that the rpm needle always danced around a bit, and in the last few weeks its going it more... now practically stalls..
Even on the throttle, holding it, the rpms surge down and up.... and deceleration the rpms surge as they drop.

We plan to test coil packs.. don't know how to exactly.. any ideas on that,
We are going to remove the EGR tomorrow, but I doubt that would be that causing the problem even with the foot on the gas..

How we test fuel pumps on these cars? I don't know if its sensors.. now... or coil, or fuel delivery... the car has been taking more gas lately...

its the 2.0 liter mazda.

Thank you for any help,

 

[CheeseHelmet]

Alright, so today, we tried doing lots of things according to the forum, and service manual...

Tried disconnecting maf, idle did not move as much, but car still ran rough, misses, stalls at times... rpms down to zero.. hard to start, other times easier....

That wouldn't have helped at all, if there was something wrong with your MAF the "Check Engine" light would have turned on by now. Unplugging the MAF will only make the car run worse.

We changed the plugs, cleaned out the IAC, the plunger comes out of the sensor, normal? I did disconnect it like the service manual says.

Noticed for a few months that the rpm needle always danced around a bit, and in the last few weeks its going it more... now practically stalls..
Even on the throttle, holding it, the rpms surge down and up.... and deceleration the rpms surge as they drop.

Really sounds like an EGR problem...

We plan to test coil packs.. don't know how to exactly.. any ideas on that,

You can't, unless they're really ****** they'll only fail when the engine is at operating temperature, and even then the failure will be intermittent. That would be very hard to replicate on the bench. Luckily they're cheap so I'd recommend you go pick up a set before they really fail and you kill your primary catalytic converter.

We are going to remove the EGR tomorrow, but I doubt that would be that causing the problem even with the foot on the gas..

I assume you're Canadian, the Protege EGR valves don't last very long at all in our climate. There's a good reason Mazda came out with a new EGR valve that for a while was only available in Canada (hence the "Canadian EGR" nickname). For a while they were replacing these things like crazy under warranty but that has long since expired.

I wouldn't be surprised if your valve is so bad that even a simple cleaning wouldn't help much. If you're lucky you'll notice an improvement for a short period of time and then it'll start failing again. When cleaning it, be sure to completely take it apart and lube the valve stem with a bit of motor oil. If the valve stem is even the slightest bit rusty, the EGR is ****** and you'll definitely need a new one.

How we test fuel pumps on these cars? I don't know if its sensors.. now... or coil, or fuel delivery... the car has been taking more gas lately...

The procedure is in the service manual, I'm not sure if there's a way to check fuel pressure without using their fancy service tool.

 

[hitnf]

hi there thanks... ya we're in Canada too... but EGR would cause starting issues too? I don't know how well it works but surprised that it would...

 

[CheeseHelmet]

hi there thanks... ya we're in Canada too... but EGR would cause starting issues too? I don't know how well it works but surprised that it would...

If it's stuck open, then absolutely.

 

[hitnf]

Alright, so we tried accessing it today, pretty challenging to get too, tomorrow we're going to try again to remove it.

If we get a jobber one, that should be good enough?

I did read somewhere that there might be some revised version...

forgot to mention our EGR valve is rusted up pretty badly.. even the bolts too...

thank you again

 

[CheeseHelmet]

There are at least 3 types of EGR valves that were made for the 3rd gen proteges: the original valve (looks something like this), the revised valve (notice the added heat-shield), and finally the "canadian" EGR valve (notice the added coolant lines).

If you're going to go through the trouble of replacing the valve, spend the extra few dollars and get the "canadian" EGR valve. That way you can have peace of mind knowing that the chances of it failing in the future are slim to s***. There aren't really any "jobber" versions of the EGR valve available, the parts you'll get from your local shop are most likely re-badged Mazda parts. Often these "jobber" parts are priced higher than what it would cost to buy the valve from a Mazda dealer. Autopartsway.ca sells it for $113, notice that the brand is "standard motor products" but what you get is indeed a made in Japan, Mazda part.

Full instructions for removal and installation of the valve are available in this TSB: http://www.protegefaq.net/tsb/can01-07-17en.pdf

 

[hitnf]

Alright CheeseHelmet, We changed the EGR canadian one from the dealer, you were right about the price and all.... works fine now!

The rpm tach does jump when decelerating... otherwise its running nicely, smoother.... than before.. I really appreciate the help on this...

On the old EGR, I did notice that the pintle, is it?, was sticky... stuck open....

Again many thanks!

 

[CheeseHelmet]

That's great, that valve will probably outlast the car!

Is that car manual our automatic? Could you better describe what you mean when you say "The rpm tach does jump when decelerating"? That might be perfectly normal behaviour...

 

[DSMissed]

I had the same problem. Cleaning the EGR was only a temporary fix, I had to replace it about 2 weeks after cleaning it. Mine was stuck open.

 

[hitnf]

hiii thank you again...

ya we figured cleaning it won't do much, was rusted pretty badly.. figure just change it.... good to know.. this one looked like it was stuck open...

@Cheesehelmet, lol we're in the same city actually.... automatic car.... foot off the throttle, as its decelerating, rpms jump.... strange though our other car did that too a bit..

thanks again

 

[CheeseHelmet]

@Cheesehelmet, lol we're in the same city actually.... automatic car.... foot off the throttle, as its decelerating, rpms jump.... strange though our other car did that too a bit..

Jeez, another montrealer, Quebec seems to have an endless supply of (rusty) Protege5s

I've never driven an automatic P5, could it be that as you slow down, the transmission is down-shifting which is causing the RPM to jump like that? Or am I not understanding what you mean by "jump"?