I don't have ABS...its great.
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P5 ABS is SH*T!!!
- Thread starter IchBinEinMP5
- Start date
gobrad1210
Member
for all of u guys that are comparing the p5s abds to imprezas or SiR's or w/e u gotta look at he car...its an ecobox! not an exotic or sports car...lets compare it with a neon or focus or civic and i bet it does pretty darn well!
just my 2 cents..
Brad
just my 2 cents..
Brad
Tell you what, if any of you guys want no abs, here's the deal..we can switch up to my front disc/rear drum set up w/o ABS off my 2002 DX. Then you'll be able to do all that sliding and rear ending you ever dreamed of!
gobrad1210 said:for all of u guys that are comparing the p5s abds to imprezas or SiR's or w/e u gotta look at he car...its an ecobox! not an exotic or sports car...lets compare it with a neon or focus or civic and i bet it does pretty darn well!
For all you guys that think imprezas have a good ABS systems :bs: -- guess again. When I had the stocker RE-92s on my WRX, the ABS would kick in at least once a day in dry conditions. If I'm on the breaks and I hit ANY kinda bump or seam in the pavement, forget about it. I can't compare the system to the P5 because we didn't get that option on ours.
There are tons of impreza owners out there that are unhappy with the ABS.
scarmiglio
Member
- :
- 2002.5 Protege5
The best drivers in the world can't stop a non ABS car in as short a distance as an average person driving the same car with ABS. In fact, the difference in distances is usually 30% or more. In a panic stop (which happens to us all), you simply can't modulate the brake fast enough to compare to the ABS system.
My ABS has only activated 3 times since I got the car (almost 2 years). Twice in the rain, and once when an accident happened right in front of me on the 405 freeway. If it hadn't been for ABS, I would have been part of that accident.
My ABS has only activated 3 times since I got the car (almost 2 years). Twice in the rain, and once when an accident happened right in front of me on the 405 freeway. If it hadn't been for ABS, I would have been part of that accident.
A few facts about ABS...
Just a few comments...you will never stop a car faster (and with control) than one equipped with ABS. Locking all four wheels might stop you faster, but you just gave up your control. Most ABS systems will pulse something like 16x per second -- if you can move your foot that fast, then you don't need it.
The difference between a P5 and a WRX, etc is in the hardware, not the ABS system. I don't know WRX's very well -- way outta my price range -- but I'm sure most of these apply: it will have larger rotors, the calipers will be upgraded (# and size of pots), and the brake lines should be better. All of those factors will affect braking distances...and the most important factor is where the rubber meets the road. If you have a low cF at the road, the best brakes in the world won't stop you any faster. Physics doesn't lie.
Most cars now have 4 channel ABS systems -- meaning each wheel is regulated, rather than the old (80's) two channel systems (each axle was regulated). It doesn't get much better than that.
So if you want to upgrade your braking performance, try getting braided steel brake lines, softer brake pads (more bite), or completely upgrade the rotors and calipers.
Just a few comments...you will never stop a car faster (and with control) than one equipped with ABS. Locking all four wheels might stop you faster, but you just gave up your control. Most ABS systems will pulse something like 16x per second -- if you can move your foot that fast, then you don't need it.
The difference between a P5 and a WRX, etc is in the hardware, not the ABS system. I don't know WRX's very well -- way outta my price range -- but I'm sure most of these apply: it will have larger rotors, the calipers will be upgraded (# and size of pots), and the brake lines should be better. All of those factors will affect braking distances...and the most important factor is where the rubber meets the road. If you have a low cF at the road, the best brakes in the world won't stop you any faster. Physics doesn't lie.
Most cars now have 4 channel ABS systems -- meaning each wheel is regulated, rather than the old (80's) two channel systems (each axle was regulated). It doesn't get much better than that.
So if you want to upgrade your braking performance, try getting braided steel brake lines, softer brake pads (more bite), or completely upgrade the rotors and calipers.
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Actually, ABS causes longer braking distances on slippery surfaces (ie., sand, snow, gravel, etc.) and have very minimal effect on dry surfaces. This is because the rotating tire will stay on top of the low traction road surface, and effectively "float" on this boundary layer.
A non ABS braked vehicle can lock its tires and create a snow plow effect in front of the tires which helps slow the vehicle. These locked tires can often find more traction below this boundary layer. This is a reason why seasoned off-roader's install ABS kill switches.
The purpose of ABS is to allow the average driver to maintain directional control in panic/emergency situations, not to shorten stopping distances. This, however, isn't perfect due to the fact that the tire can only deliver a fixed amount of traction for the road conditions. This traction is divided between steering and braking. A driver can continue to steer a vehicle using maximum ABS braking but not as sharply as he or she could without any braking.
A non ABS braked vehicle can lock its tires and create a snow plow effect in front of the tires which helps slow the vehicle. These locked tires can often find more traction below this boundary layer. This is a reason why seasoned off-roader's install ABS kill switches.
The purpose of ABS is to allow the average driver to maintain directional control in panic/emergency situations, not to shorten stopping distances. This, however, isn't perfect due to the fact that the tire can only deliver a fixed amount of traction for the road conditions. This traction is divided between steering and braking. A driver can continue to steer a vehicle using maximum ABS braking but not as sharply as he or she could without any braking.
IchBinEinMP5
Member
The SiR IS an econobox, so it is comparable (price too)...
Ok, I am not talking about normal driving... the ABS is rarely (if ever) activated when I am driving normally. I mean when I want to do some spirited like snow driving...
The best drivers in the world can stop faster as well as go faster without drivers aids (perhaps with the exception of pure ice). If you want to ask an expert, ask M. Schumacher, who can lap an Enzo faster w/o all the electronic safeties than with...
Most cars DON'T have 4 channel ABS, like ours, they have 3 channel: LF - RF - L+RR...
Finally, all the braking force is carried out by the tires, and those winter tires need to lock up slightly to hold properly (biting), and for pendulem turning/driving (rally style). Our ABS software takes over too early and does not allow this to happen, the reason I am not too happy with it.
I like mp5's suggestion: an ABS kill switch, which I can then use at my discretion. Like track days and snow days...
Ok, I am not talking about normal driving... the ABS is rarely (if ever) activated when I am driving normally. I mean when I want to do some spirited like snow driving...
The best drivers in the world can stop faster as well as go faster without drivers aids (perhaps with the exception of pure ice). If you want to ask an expert, ask M. Schumacher, who can lap an Enzo faster w/o all the electronic safeties than with...
Most cars DON'T have 4 channel ABS, like ours, they have 3 channel: LF - RF - L+RR...
Finally, all the braking force is carried out by the tires, and those winter tires need to lock up slightly to hold properly (biting), and for pendulem turning/driving (rally style). Our ABS software takes over too early and does not allow this to happen, the reason I am not too happy with it.
I like mp5's suggestion: an ABS kill switch, which I can then use at my discretion. Like track days and snow days...
It would be easy enough to rig a kill switch...just clip the wire to the ABS fuse, run equal lengths of wire from those sections to the kill switch.
I don't totally agree with the "boundary layer" effect -- a proper snow tire will bite through the snow to the pavement below. Or provide you with better traction by virtue of it's softer compound -- it will conform to the imperfections in the snow easier and provide more friction.
And, yes, professional drivers can drive faster with the electronic nannies off, because they have the skills necessary to take that car to the limit time and time again. They also drive a lot faster than the common driver.
If you're driving that fast on snow covered roads, then you get what you deserve. If you're professional rally drive from Finland, then my apologies.
Just my .02
I don't totally agree with the "boundary layer" effect -- a proper snow tire will bite through the snow to the pavement below. Or provide you with better traction by virtue of it's softer compound -- it will conform to the imperfections in the snow easier and provide more friction.
And, yes, professional drivers can drive faster with the electronic nannies off, because they have the skills necessary to take that car to the limit time and time again. They also drive a lot faster than the common driver.
If you're driving that fast on snow covered roads, then you get what you deserve. If you're professional rally drive from Finland, then my apologies.
Just my .02
drumsbeloud
Member
- :
- 02 MP5-T
P5 ABS is SH*T!!!....P..ABS......T....PABST....mmmm... (cheers)
sorry guys. continue...
sorry guys. continue...
Well....
We got 4 inches of snow here in T.O., ABS barley kicked in unless I decided to stomp on the brakes..
I drive out into the middle of no where everyday (alliston) and there are lots of unplawed roads in the farm land. I do have the abs kick in once in a while, but even when abs is on, I can steer through corners..
I used to have a noen, and it had no abs, was fun to let it slide, but then, you have less control, and can hit stuff (came pretty close a few times..)
ABS is to help keep control, and the brakes in the P5 are very good for this type of car..
Good snow tires halp to of course, especially when driving through 8 inches of snow..
We got 4 inches of snow here in T.O., ABS barley kicked in unless I decided to stomp on the brakes..
I drive out into the middle of no where everyday (alliston) and there are lots of unplawed roads in the farm land. I do have the abs kick in once in a while, but even when abs is on, I can steer through corners..
I used to have a noen, and it had no abs, was fun to let it slide, but then, you have less control, and can hit stuff (came pretty close a few times..)
ABS is to help keep control, and the brakes in the P5 are very good for this type of car..
Good snow tires halp to of course, especially when driving through 8 inches of snow..
I live in some of the worse snow conditions of anyone on this site
I have NO issues with the ABS. This is not my first car with ABS however, and I've learned to drive with it. ABS is there for when you **** up. If your driving too fast and slam on the brakes....that's what ABS is for....to make up for YOUR mistakes.
My ABS rarely ever cuts in. But, I give myself lots of room to stop anywhere, and I don't drive like an idiot in the snow ( no offense to anyone here just a fact that some people do not know how to slow down in snow). I also have 4 studded tires on. If you're driving around with the stock summers on....make no f'n wonder the abs is kicking.
Anytime someone here locally bitches about ABS, and says it's crap, I say....lets for for a ride and I'll show you what ABS CAN do that your leg CAN'T do. I do not need ABS, and can live without it, but I do know how to use it to my advantage as well.
There are ABS systems that are too sensitive. And most of them are american cars. Cavaliers, Sunfires, Some Ford, and Chev pickups etc. our cars are nowhere near as sensitive as these and if you think ours sucks.....drive one of them some day.
If you ABS is kicking in a lot...consider a few things... Your driving yoo fast, or hitting the brakes too hard or too late....or your tires suck.
I have NO issues with the ABS. This is not my first car with ABS however, and I've learned to drive with it. ABS is there for when you **** up. If your driving too fast and slam on the brakes....that's what ABS is for....to make up for YOUR mistakes.
My ABS rarely ever cuts in. But, I give myself lots of room to stop anywhere, and I don't drive like an idiot in the snow ( no offense to anyone here just a fact that some people do not know how to slow down in snow). I also have 4 studded tires on. If you're driving around with the stock summers on....make no f'n wonder the abs is kicking.
Anytime someone here locally bitches about ABS, and says it's crap, I say....lets for for a ride and I'll show you what ABS CAN do that your leg CAN'T do. I do not need ABS, and can live without it, but I do know how to use it to my advantage as well.
There are ABS systems that are too sensitive. And most of them are american cars. Cavaliers, Sunfires, Some Ford, and Chev pickups etc. our cars are nowhere near as sensitive as these and if you think ours sucks.....drive one of them some day.
If you ABS is kicking in a lot...consider a few things... Your driving yoo fast, or hitting the brakes too hard or too late....or your tires suck.
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newf said:I live in some of the worse snow conditions of anyone on this site
I have NO issues with the ABS. This is not my first car with ABS however, and I've learned to drive with it. ABS is there for when you **** up. If your driving too fast and slam on the brakes....that's what ABS is for....to make up for YOUR mistakes.
My ABS rarely ever cuts in. But, I give myself lots of room to stop anywhere, and I don't drive like an idiot in the snow ( no offense to anyone here just a fact that some people do not know how to slow down in snow). I also have 4 studded tires on. If you're driving around with the stock summers on....make no f'n wonder the abs is kicking.
Anytime someone here locally bitches about ABS, and says it's crap, I say....lets for for a ride and I'll show you what ABS CAN do that your leg CAN'T do. I do not need ABS, and can live without it, but I do know how to use it to my advantage as well.
There are ABS systems that are too sensitive. And most of them are american cars. Cavaliers, Sunfires, Some Ford, and Chev pickups etc. our cars are nowhere near as sensitive as these and if you think ours sucks.....drive one of them some day.
If you ABS is kicking in a lot...consider a few things... Your driving yoo fast, or hitting the brakes too hard or too late....or your tires suck.
All this from a Newfie, impressive..
J/K, DON'T SHOOT!!
luckily this year, we may not need the army to clean our streets..
As already mentioned by mp5, ABS isn't designed to shorten braking distances...
except for that one elusive Car&Driver ABS test that I can't find within my collection.
In the dry, ABS didn't really make any difference in a straight line for a Honda Accord and Chevy Lumina.
However if the car is loaded up with passengers, then ABS makes all the difference in the world. The stops w/ ABS in a loaded car were within a few feet of the car with or without ABS with a single driver.
The stops with the loaded vehicle w/o ABS were much, much longer than with ABS.
except for that one elusive Car&Driver ABS test that I can't find within my collection.
In the dry, ABS didn't really make any difference in a straight line for a Honda Accord and Chevy Lumina.
However if the car is loaded up with passengers, then ABS makes all the difference in the world. The stops w/ ABS in a loaded car were within a few feet of the car with or without ABS with a single driver.
The stops with the loaded vehicle w/o ABS were much, much longer than with ABS.
MidnightDreamer
Member
Obviously many of you have never heard about snow and ice before... It may just be me, but the stopping distances are unacceptably long in the winter. I have never had the ABS come on in dry weather, but when I really need it in the winter, it will barely pull through for me. I think I kissed someones bumper before with the damn thing... I'm wondering if the stopping distance would be better if I just really mash the break down as far as I can and hold it, or if it would be better to try and keep brake pressure at traction threshold. I really don't like the ABS on our cars, they really only do count in the winter, and even then, they don't work all that great. It could just be me too, this is my second winter driving, and for all I know it's supposed to be like this... But this year when it snows a lot, I'm definetely finding an empty lot and relearning the basics of winter driving... If I know how the car responds in the winter, it should make me a better driver...
And yea, there was that dude who said:
If you ABS is kicking in a lot...consider a few things... Your driving yoo fast, or hitting the brakes too hard or too late....or your tires suck.
I'm running stock tires, proally why the ABS sucks ass so much, I'll bet some winter tires would really make the ABS function more like what I'd expect from it. And yea, you shouldn't have to use the ABS at all if you're careful, but sumtimes it's difficult to account for the stupidity of other drivers, or just sumtimes you second guess yourself, and it becomes necessary to use. I figure the less I hear the ABS come on, the better I am driving that day. Oh yea, and two words... BLACK ICE... that's where I kissed some dudes bumper, I was slowing down like way way back, with very little break pressure. All of a sudden, the ABS kicked in and I knew I was screwed. I was sliding foward at like 5kph, and at that point I was really pressin the break... So yea, I like to talk a lot...
And yea, there was that dude who said:
If you ABS is kicking in a lot...consider a few things... Your driving yoo fast, or hitting the brakes too hard or too late....or your tires suck.
I'm running stock tires, proally why the ABS sucks ass so much, I'll bet some winter tires would really make the ABS function more like what I'd expect from it. And yea, you shouldn't have to use the ABS at all if you're careful, but sumtimes it's difficult to account for the stupidity of other drivers, or just sumtimes you second guess yourself, and it becomes necessary to use. I figure the less I hear the ABS come on, the better I am driving that day. Oh yea, and two words... BLACK ICE... that's where I kissed some dudes bumper, I was slowing down like way way back, with very little break pressure. All of a sudden, the ABS kicked in and I knew I was screwed. I was sliding foward at like 5kph, and at that point I was really pressin the break... So yea, I like to talk a lot...
hellcat said:When you pull the fuse out of the ABS system, isn't there an annoying light that stays on. If so, how do you make it go away without putting the ABS fuse back in?
I asked this question last year and got no answers. BTW, if you pull that fuse, you also lose your fog lights.
-Erik
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