Okay guys, I need some help staying focused.

[Slipstream]

As you've probably gathered, I'm not yet an MSP owner. Problem is, I can't decide if I want to be or not, since the notion of owning a 1.8T GTI is constantly battling for attention. I need convincing as to why I should stick with the MSP.

My needs are such:
-under $20k, and the further under the better.
-Strong power (better than my Cougar) while retaining daily driveability.
-Comfortable and quiet on highway and city streets.
-Potential to go from daily driver to weekend racer on a weekly basis.
-Good warranty
-VERY reliable
-Eye catching yet subtle styling (in case I have to cart around clients)
-Good cargo capacity
-Safe to drive (ie. no flunking grades on crash tests)
-Plan to do SOME modding, but will probably keep it simple like I've done with the Cougar (ie. main bolt ons, not turbo swaps or full race suspensions... I have other stuff to worry about right out of school)

Now, play off those and make me a believer.

 

[perfworks]

my answers in your order

1.Mazda pro is cheaper
2.pro is MUCH faster
3.tie volkswagon has a good track record with this, but the pro's are not to shabby
4.aftermarket will catch up to the protege and make it a much better performer all the way around
5.no comment
6.mazda
7.mazda
8.mazda
9.tie

 

[1sty]

If the 1.8T keeps running, as they seem to have an insane level of problems, then it will be more modifiable but it will take alot to give it the road manners of the Mazda. Nothing drives like the MSP. Numbers in G tests don't do it justice at all.
The VW will probably be a little more refind on the road until you lower it ofcoarse to get ti to the proteges handling abaility then it will SUCK for long drives.

Get the MSP and you'll smile for the next month straight.

 

[SpicyMSP]

You will get way more chicks with the MSP.
Plus the handling of the MSP is suerior to that of the GTI.
Are you referring to the 337 ? Or just the GTI 1.8T?

 

[Slipstream]

perf: Well, as it stands now, the GTI is actually a little cheaper (I'd cosign with my dad, so 1.9% APR + $500 cash back doesn't hurt). I'm assuming Mazda dealers are going to be a little more flexible when the 03.5's start rolling in, but maybe not.

1MPiNH: Hmm, that's a good point I hadn't thought of. A new suspension kit would be essential (the car handles about as well as my overweight Cougar does factory), but I hadn't thought about sacrificing comfort to get the MSP ability.

Spicy: Don't really need to get chicks anymore, already got one. I'm looking at the basic GTI 1.8T. Not gonna pay thousands more for a body kit and big wheels.

 

[krillin]

You will get way more chicks with the MSP.
Plus the handling of the MSP is suerior to that of the GTI.
Are you referring to the 337 ? Or just the GTI 1.8T?

how many chicks have you gotten?

 

[SpicyMSP]

too many LOL

 

[1sty]

You can match the numbers of the MSP with a drop kit but not its road manners, cutbacks, balance or ride comfort, And lets not even get into steering response.

 

[perfworks]

sorry

 

[scapamouche]

The VW will NEVER have the handling prowess of the MSP. As said above, the changes necessary to make it CLOSE will make the VW UNDRIVEABLE on the street.

That said, the VW is probably a bit more comfy on the street as is, and is definitely a better platform for power mods (a chip to take you well over 200hp is ridiculous...)

I would recommend the MSP over the VW, and if you want to save even more money, but have handling as good as the MSP for less money, look at a Focus SVT. They've had their probelms, but it's still a sweet little car.... One of my friends got one in WI for under $15K late last year, so you MAY be able to find a great deal on one...

 

[murdock_]

MSP

 

[Slipstream]

I won't deny I love balls out acceleration, but at the same time, I can't afford speeding tickets. I suspect that might become an issue with a well modded GTI (they seemed deceptively fast when I drove them). That's part of the reason I'm thinking of a better handler with good power to back it up for every day driving.

I haven't done enough research yet, but how much can the stock block of the 2L RELIABLY hold? If the MSP puts out about 150-160hp to the wheels stock, I think ~200-210whp would be plenty for me (judging by the way it drove during my test drive).

scapamouche, As much as I respect the SVT as a driver's machine, I just can't ignore the fact that it's a Ford, and a not overly attractive one at that. I've done my tour of duty with FoMoCo (Cougar is 80% Contour parts), and I have a bad taste in my mouth as a result.

 

[sleeper_]

haha. yeah.. people have mentioned teh reliability.. and i have another to add, maintenance is quite expensive on VW's, isn't it?

oh, the reason for the ride comfort in the msp is the use of softer springs and nice struts

edit:
dang typos.. lol

 

[murdock_]

msp has 170 hp stock

 

[Aaron]

a gti that looks decent will cost more than a MSP that is cheaper and looks awesome. MSP has better stereo, suspension, price, rims, and may not be as quick barely but still hauls some azzzzz!!!

 

[Grimace]

A new suspension kit would be essential (the car handles about as well as my overweight Cougar does factory), but I hadn't thought about sacrificing comfort to get the MSP ability.

If you think your Cougar is heavy, have you checked out the weight of a Golf GTi?

The build quality on the Golf is sub-par. The fit and finish are excellent, yes; but they are prone to troubles. Coil pack failure, for one thing. Electric window lifts, for another. Not that the MSP is trouble free, far from it. But the GTi isn't much better.

Based on your list of requirements, I'd say get a RSX Type S, and throw some good tires on that thing and have fun!

 

[Slipstream]

If you think your Cougar is heavy, have you checked out the weight of a Golf GTi?

The build quality on the Golf is sub-par. The fit and finish are excellent, yes; but they are prone to troubles. Coil pack failure, for one thing. Electric window lifts, for another. Not that the MSP is trouble free, far from it. But the GTi isn't much better.

Based on your list of requirements, I'd say get a RSX Type S, and throw some good tires on that thing and have fun!

They actually weigh pretty much the same (Cougar is roughly 3000lbs, as is the GTI). I agree about the build quality on the MKIVs as a whole. If it were a 2002 I was looking at, I'd take the MSP hands down. But allegedly the window regulators and coil packs have both been solved for the 2003 model, so I can't entirely rule it out.

I'd be all over an RSX-S, but they're just too expensive. I'd be looking at a tad over $23k for one, which is definately outside my boundaries.

 

[TurboProtege]

You guys are SO biased.
Lets break it down.
GTI + 1165 bucks = 243HP BEAST.

Gti Interior= Sweet german ride, leather opt, feels expensive.
MSP Int. = Economy Car. Period.

To sell a car in Germany, let alone Europe, you are required to have 3 side impact door beams and 3 airbags.

Mazda speed- Front Airbags, 1 Impact side beam.

GTI- Front, Side, Headcurtain airbags, 3 impact side beams.

In germany the average car buyer keeps their car 10 years.
In america the average car buyer keeps their car 3 years.

In america you can get away with selling a car that will only last 3-5 years, in germany you can't.


This is a no brainer. GTI hands down, go pop this question on a board like VWvortex.com, and you will get overwhelming reasons for the GTI.

I myself turned away from the MSP and put a deposit on the 20th Aniversary Edition GTI. 18in Rims, body kit, 337 transmission and suspension. Recaro's, sunroof, and monsoon sound system.


This in blue is what im planning. Not to mention a 23, 200 MSRP

 

[perfworks]

You guys are SO biased.


To sell a car in Germany, let alone Europe, you are required to have 3 side impact door beams and 3 airbags.

Mazda speed- Front Airbags, 1 Impact side beam.

GTI- Front, Side, Headcurtain airbags, 3 impact side beams.

In germany the average car buyer keeps their car 10 years.
In america the average car buyer keeps their car 3 years.

In america you can get away with selling a car that will only last 3-5 years, in germany you can't.

dont you live in JERSEY?

 

[Dexter]

******* sexy TurboProtege

now fix the sig and get out of here

i kid, i kid!