New to forum - STi owner with questions about MS3

[renichms]

Hi, as the title says, I'm new to this forum. Right now I own a 2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser and a 2004 Subaru Impreza WRX STi. Once I can get a job and get rid of both the others and all the extra turbo kits, downpipes, etc. I have, I've whittled my next option down to just the MS3.

As for power, I know the MS3 doesn't have as much as the STi and is FWD but...it's a hatch and the STi isn't (and I can't afford a 2008 STi, haha). Does anyone here have experience with both the STi (older models, preferably) and the MS3? If so, I'd really like to know how they stack up from such a person's point of view so I can know what to expect.

Whenever I do get a MS3, I intend to get it in black, Grand Touring, no nav, no factory added extra-cost exhaust or intake or wheels. Just the MS3 GT with dimming rearview, maybe a few other goodies. And no mods. I've learned my lesson on mods (with both cars).

I've read the thread about what people dislike about theirs and it doesn't seem like any major issues I can't deal with. Is there anything glaring I might've missed or absolutely must know about the MS3 that I wouldn't know unless I owned one?

And to finish out my long-windedness, my profile should link to my YouTube page as well. There you can find car vids. If you see a car you like, let me know and I can pop out all the footage I have of it. And if anyone is in the Birmingham, AL area, I can get footage of your MS3 if you want (and a really good look at the car).

Looking forward to getting into a nice hatch.

RN

 

[channah]

i wouldnt say powerwise a ms3 cant stack up to an sti. i raced my friends evo the other night and had him by a car or two. and even froma stop he had me in 1st and 2nd but by 3rd i caught up. i dont have any experience with sti's but i kno evo's and sti's powerwise are abou the same. i love my car and fro the price you cant beat it!

mod wise why wouldnt u wanna mod it?? bad experienceS?

 

[MS3077]

Yeah this is a tuner car, great for mods!

Just start off with getting a stronger rear motor mount and an intake of some sort.

 

[boosted3]

Welcome to the forums. I'm certainly no expert on either car, but I'll attempt to answer your questions.

Whenever I do get a MS3, I intend to get it in black, Grand Touring, no nav, no factory added extra-cost exhaust or intake or wheels. Just the MS3 GT with dimming rearview, maybe a few other goodies. And no mods. I've learned my lesson on mods (with both cars).

I'm pretty sure the GT comes with all those features including NAV. I don't think it's a deletable option, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

I've read the thread about what people dislike about theirs and it doesn't seem like any major issues I can't deal with. Is there anything glaring I might've missed or absolutely must know about the MS3 that I wouldn't know unless I owned one?

Nothing that I could think of and I've owned mine for a bit over a year and 12k miles. It really is a pretty good little package.

 

[boosted3]

Channah,
I was going to avoid addressing that for fear of turning the thread into a pissing match..Since you opened the can.

renichms, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised how well matched the speed3 is with the STI in terms of power/acceleration.

 

[Munnugles]

Welcome to the forums. I'm certainly no expert on either car, but I'll attempt to answer your questions.



I'm pretty sure the GT comes with all those features including NAV. I don't think it's a deletable option, but I'm not 100% sure on that.



Nothing that I could think of and I've owned mine for a bit over a year and 12k miles. It really is a pretty good little package.

the nav is an option on the GT... im happy with my ms3 GT and after you have it for a week you'll want to mod it for sure (drive)

 

[MS3077]

YES the MS3 is a really fun car to drive. But for the love of GOD or whom ever you believe in, get a stronger rear motor mount! It's only like 80 to 120 bucks and takes like 25min to install. I just installed mine the other day and I'm stoked!!
Oh and yeah, about the only way a sti will out acclerate a MS3 is off the line.

 

[renichms]

More titles! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!

Thanks for the responses. However, as for the STi being matched, keep in mind mine has a few mods and I'm prone to making new C6 owners very very very upset.

I wish the MS3 was AWD but otherwise, it seems perfect for me. I don't want to mod because I want the warranty, even though I know the legality of modding and how dealers would have to cover things anyways (unless mod led directly to the failure), I just had some bad experiences and don't want to fight the idiots anymore. Plus, 280 ft/lbs in FWD would be asking for trouble with me as it is. (And for the nav...I have a little one I can use in any car already. )

It'd be nice to be down to one quick, reliable, practical car too.

How do I get this particular forum to email me when this is responded to? I checked instant notification and my email isn't getting anything (checked junk and trash too).

RN

 

[guy_incognito]

If warranty is the main issue, you can still consider the mazdaspeed CAI. It's a bit more pricey than other CAI/SRI options, but it is the only intake that will retain your warranty.

 

[orlandomsp]

Welcome to the forums. You can pick up the MS CAI and CBE and keep your warranty intact.

How do I get this particular forum to email me when this is responded to? I checked instant notification and my email isn't getting anything (checked junk and trash too).

RN

If you check the top of the thread, right above your 1st post there's a Thread Tools button, click on it and then click on Subscribe to this Thread.

 

[subparpunk03]

One thing you'll find about the ms3 as opposed to the sti is that it feels a little bit more "nimble." I test drove a used evo and a used sti before settling on this beastie.

You'll find that the FWD gives you some torque steer whenever you mash it, and you'll find that the understeer really isn't all that bad, and I'm sure a beefier rear sway bar will make it turn in a lot crisper. But the overall feel of the car is very different, it just feels lighter and more agile, even though it may be a little slower in the corners cause you can't get on it as soon due to the FWD.

As far as I can tell, the sti has three things on the ms3: .2 extra liters of displacement, AWD + DCCD, and a burgeoning aftermarket.

The ms3 makes up for most of that by taking a different approach... we have less displacement but we have direct injection. We don't have AWD, but we get better gas mileage and cost less. We are quickly gaining a lot of aftermarket support, but since you aren't into modding, thats kind of moot

So in short, is the sti a better "race car?" without a doubt. Is it worth the extra money for daily driving? I didn't think so, and I'm still VERY happy with my ms3.

 

[LazerBlueP5]

My previous car was a 2005 STi with Cobb Stage 2. Just because I'm too lazy to structure a well written post- here's a list of bullet points off the top of my head (good and bad) about both cars:

- MS3 is much (10k) cheaper than the STi; that's important to note especially when comparing them directly

- STi has huge aftermarket, MS3 has a modest one but is getting better

- AWD>FWD as you know however FWD has it's advantages. On the highway my MS3 with Cobb SRI feels about as fast as my Stage 2 STi (ie faster than a Stock STi!)

- The MS3 will be a big adjustment for you in regards to low gear traction. 1st, 2nd, and even 3rd sometimes are very challenging because the tires simply can't hold the road with all the torque. However a hard launch in a MS3 is infinitely less damaging than a hard launch in the STi. The STi sounded like it was going to break every time I launched it hard...lots of stress on the drivetrain.

- Gearing is very similar- thoug the 1-2 shift gearing in the STi is wayyy smoother. I don't unerstand why they made it a 1k drop in rpms on the 1-2 on the MS3?!

- Warning the following is strictly subjective: The MS3 has more tastefull styling. Relative sleeper looks, beautiful OEM 18" wheels (don't get me wrong Forged BBS rock but aesthetically they aren't up to par), better looking headlights and tailights. The biggest thing about the STi I didn't like was it's styling. I'm not crazy about vanilla sedans- which the STi really is....a vanilla styled sedan with a ridiculous spoiler and hood scoop.

- Interior style/quality and flexibility goes, hands-down, to the MS3. I actually liked the blue seats in the STi (though is was blue on the outside too) but everything in the MS3 interior is better. Better seats, better dash layout, rear seats that drop, better stock audio system, the list goes on.

- Technology. Speaking of interior it has all sort of goodies (in the GT trim); rain sensing wipers, auto headlights, trip computer with real-time milage meter

- Shifter. My STi had the factory ss kit and boost gauge which was great. -1 to the MS3 for not offering either. Though the aftermarket TWM kit is arguably better than the OEM ss kit for the STi.

If/when you get the car may I make a few suggestions for mods right out of the gate. You'll want to address the weakest points from the factory right off the bat which are- suffocating stock air box, rubbery trans mount, and sloppy shifter.

For about $500 you can upgrade the intake, shifter and rear (trans) mount which make the car infinitely better. You'll wonder why Mazda didn't have these parts on the car from the factory.

1. Intake. The MS3's stock airbox is notoriously one of the most restrictive EVER! At least as per Cobb's findings. A simple SRI can offer incredible doller per hp/tq gains. Much MUCH more than adding an intake for the STi. Beware though the stock Turbo is LOUD! Though despite my gf's complaints I love it!

2. Motor Mount. The spongy stock rear mount allows too much engine movement causing terrible wheel hop during heavy acceleration. Upgrading to a more solid mount will help eliminate most of the wheel hop while making shifting easier and more direct.

3. TWM SS kit w/ bushings. This in my opinion is a MUST! The stock shifter was very vague and sloppy. The SS kit along with the bushings, shortens the shifters physical "height" (debatable if that is a good thing) but shortens it's throws and makes it more...well, "crisp". It feels a bit more like my linkage shifter in my S2000 which is a beautiful thing. The MS3 shifter does feel noticably heavier which some people resolve with a weighted shift knob and/or removing the shifter counter weight. I'm planning on trying the latter just to see how it affects the shifter feel.

Hope this helps.

 

[dparm1984]

STi is going to walk away from a Speed3, but it's not going to blow its doors off.

 

[boosted3]

STi is going to walk away from a Speed3, but it's not going to blow its doors off.

There are two local guys that thought the same thing from a slow roll, but quickly received the bad news that their advantage lies only at the starting line.

 

[trufanatic]

im sorry but if you go from the STi to the MS3 youre taking a step backwards. the Evo's and STi's are ROUNDED cars, and from personal experience the sti does have decent top end once modded...5th gear pulls like a b****! just my two cents...the ms3 by far is one of the most fun cars ive owned even better than my srt-4 but i bought this car for kicks and having a capable daily driver i can smile at everyday when i get in it but if youre looking for mind blowing performance, hard launches, something you can drive in the snow and great aftermarket support...do not sell the sti

 

[dparm1984]

There are two local guys that thought the same thing from a slow roll, but quickly received the bad news that their advantage lies only at the starting line.

I guess I could believe that. The STI does have more power, but is about 200lb heavier IIRC. I don't know the gearing or powerband of that car, but I would assume they've set it up well.

 

[renichms]

My previous car was a 2005 STi with Cobb Stage 2. Just because I'm too lazy to structure a well written post- here's a list of bullet points off the top of my head (good and bad) about both cars:

- MS3 is much (10k) cheaper than the STi; that's important to note especially when comparing them directly

- STi has huge aftermarket, MS3 has a modest one but is getting better

- AWD>FWD as you know however FWD has it's advantages. On the highway my MS3 with Cobb SRI feels about as fast as my Stage 2 STi (ie faster than a Stock STi!)

- The MS3 will be a big adjustment for you in regards to low gear traction. 1st, 2nd, and even 3rd sometimes are very challenging because the tires simply can't hold the road with all the torque. However a hard launch in a MS3 is infinitely less damaging than a hard launch in the STi. The STi sounded like it was going to break every time I launched it hard...lots of stress on the drivetrain.

- Gearing is very similar- thoug the 1-2 shift gearing in the STi is wayyy smoother. I don't unerstand why they made it a 1k drop in rpms on the 1-2 on the MS3?!

- Warning the following is strictly subjective: The MS3 has more tastefull styling. Relative sleeper looks, beautiful OEM 18" wheels (don't get me wrong Forged BBS rock but aesthetically they aren't up to par), better looking headlights and tailights. The biggest thing about the STi I didn't like was it's styling. I'm not crazy about vanilla sedans- which the STi really is....a vanilla styled sedan with a ridiculous spoiler and hood scoop.

- Interior style/quality and flexibility goes, hands-down, to the MS3. I actually liked the blue seats in the STi (though is was blue on the outside too) but everything in the MS3 interior is better. Better seats, better dash layout, rear seats that drop, better stock audio system, the list goes on.

- Technology. Speaking of interior it has all sort of goodies (in the GT trim); rain sensing wipers, auto headlights, trip computer with real-time milage meter

- Shifter. My STi had the factory ss kit and boost gauge which was great. -1 to the MS3 for not offering either. Though the aftermarket TWM kit is arguably better than the OEM ss kit for the STi.

If/when you get the car may I make a few suggestions for mods right out of the gate. You'll want to address the weakest points from the factory right off the bat which are- suffocating stock air box, rubbery trans mount, and sloppy shifter.

For about $500 you can upgrade the intake, shifter and rear (trans) mount which make the car infinitely better. You'll wonder why Mazda didn't have these parts on the car from the factory.

1. Intake. The MS3's stock airbox is notoriously one of the most restrictive EVER! At least as per Cobb's findings. A simple SRI can offer incredible doller per hp/tq gains. Much MUCH more than adding an intake for the STi. Beware though the stock Turbo is LOUD! Though despite my gf's complaints I love it!

2. Motor Mount. The spongy stock rear mount allows too much engine movement causing terrible wheel hop during heavy acceleration. Upgrading to a more solid mount will help eliminate most of the wheel hop while making shifting easier and more direct.

3. TWM SS kit w/ bushings. This in my opinion is a MUST! The stock shifter was very vague and sloppy. The SS kit along with the bushings, shortens the shifters physical "height" (debatable if that is a good thing) but shortens it's throws and makes it more...well, "crisp". It feels a bit more like my linkage shifter in my S2000 which is a beautiful thing. The MS3 shifter does feel noticably heavier which some people resolve with a weighted shift knob and/or removing the shifter counter weight. I'm planning on trying the latter just to see how it affects the shifter feel.

Hope this helps.

Thanks again for all the replies, particularly this one.

I have a question about the airbox. Is it like in the STi where you can remove the intake silencer and the problem is mostly solved or does it require the replacement of parts? Or is it solved with the MS intake?

Mileage actually does matter some, so while FWD is a disadvantage on fast launches and in some of the type cornering I sometimes like to do, for mileage it would be an advantage...which I want. I also do want the look of the MS3 and when I got a look at one at a dealer, I liked the interior.

If I did the recommended mods to get the car to "feel right," how prone to noticing those and trying to void warranty is a Mazda dealer going to be? The Subaru dealer in Huntsville actually completely destroyed my suspension (it looked like they dropped the back end off a lift) and refused to cover it and I will not go through that kind of crap again.

So you know, I'm the one that made STi launch videos to teach people how to do it right, so I managed to not damage anything. However, with the PT, I never could get it to grab (well into long 2nd gear before screeching stopped). I'll have to end up working on launches some I guess. Sounds like it'll be fun though.

So how do all of you like Mazda service departments? Good across the board, bad across the board or hit and miss depending on individual dealer?

While I used to eat Corvettes with my STi, I've gone mostly back to stock and I also don't expect to be doing that in a MS3, nor will I probably try unless I just want to goad a modded one into showing me what it has.

...and it finally decided to send me an email notification without having to change anything on my end.

RN

 

[dparm1984]

The stock airbox is just really restrictive. The car responds unbelievably well to a CAI...like 15whp, even one or two of the big auto magazines verified this. The factory CAI is like $310 (ouch).

Mazda actually sells a line of Mazdaspeed performance parts: intake, exhaust, suspension, clutch, etc. If the dealer installs it, they're fully warrantied. Pricey, but you don't have to put up with the dealer claiming, "well your aftermarket stuff is the problem."

 

[bykeryder4life]

I walk away from sti's everytime I see them all they can do is launch better. I live by crawford racing so I see them all over around here. Get a MS3 and sell your STI you"ll be stoked

 

[renichms]

I walk away from sti's everytime I see them all they can do is launch better. I live by crawford racing so I see them all over around here. Get a MS3 and sell your STI you"ll be stoked

I'd love to, though I really didn't intend for this to be an STi vs. MS3 thread.

So to remove the airbox restriction, do you absolutely have to replace the entire intake or can a single restrictive piece be removed to allow better airflow to the factory intake? With the 2004 STi, there's a piece that can be removed and it is the main restriction, so without it, power and beautiful turbo noise is unleashed.

RN