New Pads, ATE Blue = Softer Pedal?!? WTH?

[Parkeway]

Just replaced worn pads with Hawk +'s. While we were at it , we flushed the system with ATE Super Blue.

Not only does the pedal feel softer, the pedal gives gradually when under engine boost.

When the engine is off, things are tight as a drum.

Bled 3 times (almost 2 liters of Blue through) and still the same squishy feeling while under power.

Anyone else experience this after a pad/fluid change? Every other car I've ever driven (or track prepped) has had brakes-o-steel after I added track pads and fluid.

Any ideas?

 

[Kain]

Did you flush starting from the caliper furthest from the master cylinder and working your way forward?

 

[Parkeway]

Did you flush starting from the caliper furthest from the master cylinder and working your way forward?

Yep.. Did it by the book - even repeated it a couple of times JUST to make sure. Would the ABS block have anything to do with it? E-brake pulls nice and tight, and brakes w/o power are tight, but with the vacuum assist, the pedal feels mushy.

I bedded the brakes, and made a few runs just a minute ago. Brakes catch ok, plenty of stopping force, travel seems to be a bit farther than stock which is the opposite of what you would think.

Then, when I wheeled it into the garage, I depressed the pedal slowly. It literally squishes. Maybe it'll firm up - who knows.

Only thing I can think of is master cylinder seal.

I called Trussville Mazda for a master cylinder just in case and the service dept said they hadn't seen one fail YET, and thus didn't have one. Only one they could find was in Canada!!!

How do your brakes feel under steady (not sudden) pressure?

 

[Kain]

My brakes feel like they are made to stop a more capable car than the MS3. Steady, progressive pedal feel. I'm on the stock fluid. What DOT is the fluid you used? Before replacing the master cylinder, I'd reflush with OEM fluid. If that's not it and there are no air in the lines, gotta be the MC.

 

[Alpha Wolf]

Just replaced worn pads with Hawk +'s. While we were at it , we flushed the system with ATE Super Blue.

Not only does the pedal feel softer, the pedal gives gradually when under engine boost.

When the engine is off, things are tight as a drum.

Bled 3 times (almost 2 liters of Blue through) and still the same squishy feeling while under power.

Anyone else experience this after a pad/fluid change? Every other car I've ever driven (or track prepped) has had brakes-o-steel after I added track pads and fluid.

Any ideas?

Either the brakes need to be bleed, I don't know if you are doing it correctly or if you are allowing air back in while attempting to do so.

Or the vacuum line to the power brakes have an issue ie leak

 

[Parkeway]

My brakes feel like they are made to stop a more capable car than the MS3. Steady, progressive pedal feel. I'm on the stock fluid. What DOT is the fluid you used? Before replacing the master cylinder, I'd reflush with OEM fluid. If that's not it and there are no air in the lines, gotta be the MC.

ATE Super Blue - Dot 4 high temp stuff. Wonder if anybody else has run the high temp Motuls or Super Blue and felt the same thing?

I may just flush with generic DOT 3 and see about that feel.

...things that make you go 'hmmm'...

 

[MS3BOOST]

i have heard the hawk pads have a soft squishy feel

 

[Kain]

Unless he didn't seat and bed the pads properly, then it's not the Hawk HP+.

 

[Parkeway]

i have heard the hawk pads have a soft squishy feel

I had not heard this, but it is the only logical answer (other than MC seal).

Pads were burnished and bedded 8 stops from 35-0. 2 more from 40 and 2 from 60. I'm hoping they settle in and firm up a bit - like a firm pedal.

Now that I think of it, improper bedding would not lead to that squishy feeling at idle. That's really the only place it seems to dip down, and only when I stand on it. Who the heck knows.

I don't remember how the HP+'s felt on my SC Miata, but I do believe they were more firm (not as crazy firm as the Blue's when they went on).

 

[TheMAN]

the ABS pump *may* cause bleeding issues, so sometimes on some cars, it maybe needed to actually activate the ABS a few times to get air to move past the pump before bleeding again

other than that though, you need to explain to us like you would to a baby EXACTLY how you bled your brakes so that we can determine whether you did the job right or not... there's plenty of people out there that don't and they end up ******* their s*** up

 

[Parkeway]

the ABS pump *may* cause bleeding issues, so sometimes on some cars, it maybe needed to actually activate the ABS a few times to get air to move past the pump before bleeding again

other than that though, you need to explain to us like you would to a baby EXACTLY how you bled your brakes so that we can determine whether you did the job right or not... there's plenty of people out there that don't and they end up ******* their s*** up

Cap off
Pulled some out at resevoir (not all)
Started to pour in Blue
bled RR, LR, RF, LF while constantly checking levels @ MC
Pure Blue no air showed up in bottle when bleeder valve tightened

Repeated process TWICE

As for the ABS, if no air entered the system (presumably) how would the system be FUBAR?

 

[MikeHTally]

Are the Hawk pads ceramic? Ceramic pads have a "soft" feel. Took me a while to get used to them on my Ram.