NA spark plug questions
- Thread starter akhilleus
- Start date
p5sundevil
Member
- :
- 03.5 MidnightBlue p5
yah we have the NGK Vpowers as stock in the 5's but they arent extended like akhilles said. Personally Ill worry more about indexing them till at least after all the bolt on are done.
The Ford 2.3 is an OHC engine. There are huge amounts of power to be had with that engine ie 300hp NA. This is because it's been developed so much, mostly because of Formula Ford action.
I know I come across as hard-edged and unyielding Akhilleus, but I try to tell it like it is.
As with my carbs, there's only ONE reason for that mod....the sound. I realize that it may or may not even make as much power as even a good intake, but oh man..the sound....
And there's no doubt, I'm just as interested in seeing how indexing the plugs works out for the FS. Hell, I'd love to be proven wrong, so I can do the mod myself. NA is all about one hp here, two hp there.......
Plug indexing would have to be done on the dyno, and there are a few things you'd have to take car of to insure accuracy. You'd have to baseline with new extended reach plugs first. Just to make sure having new plugs in itself didn't give you more power. Also, extended reach plugs might be able to increase compression just enough to give you a marginal increase in hp. If THAT in itself gives someone power, I'll want to know, and put some in my own engine.....
I know I come across as hard-edged and unyielding Akhilleus, but I try to tell it like it is.
As with my carbs, there's only ONE reason for that mod....the sound. I realize that it may or may not even make as much power as even a good intake, but oh man..the sound....
And there's no doubt, I'm just as interested in seeing how indexing the plugs works out for the FS. Hell, I'd love to be proven wrong, so I can do the mod myself. NA is all about one hp here, two hp there.......
Plug indexing would have to be done on the dyno, and there are a few things you'd have to take car of to insure accuracy. You'd have to baseline with new extended reach plugs first. Just to make sure having new plugs in itself didn't give you more power. Also, extended reach plugs might be able to increase compression just enough to give you a marginal increase in hp. If THAT in itself gives someone power, I'll want to know, and put some in my own engine.....
Last edited:
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
i would recommend 1 step colder plugs as soon as you do any mod that gives you 5whp more.....but not for a power reason. it's for a safety reason. it is always better to go 1 step colder and loose 1whp than keep the same plugs or even go hotter to gain 1whp and get a damaged engine
The thing is, all of us like to run to the redline I'm sure. Which means we can all run colder plugs without worrying about detonation, since we run nice and hot to allow for deposits to burn off the electrode anyway....
What's the disadvantage to a cold plug? Your car doesn't heat up as quickly, big deal. Your driving style is just as important to the plugs you choose as is how much power and/or compression you're making....
What's the disadvantage to a cold plug? Your car doesn't heat up as quickly, big deal. Your driving style is just as important to the plugs you choose as is how much power and/or compression you're making....
OK, just to fill in a few gaps here- the extended reach plugs are what comes factory on the FS-ZE motor, which is intended to run on higher octane gas (courtesy of a write up done by theman) As to colder or hotter plugs, IMHO unless you are boosting or pushing a serious amount of HP above the stock levels, a slightly hotter plug will not increase the chance of detonation by much, if at all. The colder plugs wont burn the mix quite as hot, which means less combustion, which can lead to a slight loss of HP- pushing more of the right out of the tailpipe instead of burning it. Especially with the extra fuel that we push to start with- just look at the unburned stuff coming out of our tailpipes. With the optiumum A/F and plug range, there would be a lot less unburned stuff coming out- If I am wrong on this, please explain it..
Eric
Eric
I want to see personally how much the heat range affects the hp...although detonation is an evil to be guarded against carefully i do believe that with our extremely rich engines that it would be difficult to have detonation except on maybe cars like twilights with extreme cams. Part of me feels like i lost some hp when i switched to the colder plug but since i did it right after the header i cant say for sure. But the extd reach is a very good idea...no matter what. And yes i would want to do the indexing on a set of plugs that are already being used so that it doesnt interefere. besides that its all good josh 
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
shinzen you're sort of correct. colder plugs just mean that they transfer more heat from the combustion chamber into the head. hotter plugs dont transfer as much heat. they still burn make the same amount of heat, and in theory generate the same amount of power, but where colder plugs loose power is from the plugs fouling up because the carbon on the plugs does not burn off. the reason hotter plugs are bad for powerful engines is that basically, they just melt. flying parts of spark plugs in your combustion chamber isnt real nice!
hope that makes sense...
hope that makes sense...
On a side note- not specific to our cars, I know that different plugs can have a wildly different effect on performance from car to car. I read a while back from some guys that are pretty hardcore into the SCCA that the mods that made a difference no matter what was synthetic motor oil, transmission fluid, and plug wires. Depending on the car they either gained or lost hp by changing the plugs out, so without a dyno, there really isn't proof- But I will say that the extended reach plugs did feel a bit better, whether it be from the placebo effect or not- hotter plugs to my sense should make better hp numbers, except for the reasons previously mentioned.
It does make sense- thanks for the explanation- From a common sense perspective on a lower hp engine, fouling plugs would make you loose hp- since by and large that is what we are dealing with (and from pulling my plugs the fouling is def. happening), so until you really start diggin into the engine, for example where you are andrew, then the hotter plugs should be fine- colder plugs certainly wont hurt for detonation reasons though..twilightprotege said:
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
that's exactly it. that's the reason you loose power if the plugs are too cold - the plugs just foul up in no time.
i still prefer to get 1 step colder plugs than required as a safety measure. i take out and clean my plugs every 3000 miles when i change the oil anyway, so it's no problem for me. and like gen1 says, if you give your car a good flogging every now and then, that usually cleans the plugs anyway
i still prefer to get 1 step colder plugs than required as a safety measure. i take out and clean my plugs every 3000 miles when i change the oil anyway, so it's no problem for me. and like gen1 says, if you give your car a good flogging every now and then, that usually cleans the plugs anyway
hehe, every now and then? Hell, my car sees redline every time I'm in it.twilightprotege said:
Twilight has made the best point so far. The only difference in the plugs, is their ability to transfer heat. Too much, and the plugs foul like he said. Not enough and you may get detonation, since the plugs are running so hot. Grandmas who never drive their car above 3000RPM need hotter plugs. Average guys like my roomate who think cars are just transportation need factory recommended plugs. Guys like us who drive our cars like we're supposed to, should use colder plugs.....
p5sundevil
Member
- :
- 03.5 MidnightBlue p5
so our standard heat range is 5?
so i want a NGK Vpower extended reach in the 4 heat range? would be good for now untill things get serious?
so i want a NGK Vpower extended reach in the 4 heat range? would be good for now untill things get serious?
p5sundevil
Member
- :
- 03.5 MidnightBlue p5
rgr, will prob go to shucks or somethin and pick em up tomorrow.
twilightprotege
Member
- :
- 2001 323 Astina SP20 (P5)
my car sees redline everytime i drive too. except when my mum's in the car hehehe
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