MT: MS3 vs. Subaru Impreza WRX
- Thread starter RHAGEL
- Start date
jflo said:
Yes, but stock is stock, lol. That said, with all these cars hitting the dealers in october I have a feeling a lot are going to be sold with an extra set of rims (which will fit nicely in the hatch) and some all season tires. Ironic.
jred... where are you from?
jred321 said:all seasons won't help, gonna need some nice winters
yeah.. people are going to b**** mazda out for selling the Mazdaspeed3 and 6 in the northern parts of the U.S. and Canada with summer-only tires. 99% of people will absolutely not deal with having separate wheels/tires summer and winter.
Hyundai tried it with the Tiburon with Michelin Pilot Sports (really great tires, but crazy expensive) and people freaked out, so they slapped the tires that they put on the Sonata and XG350 onto the tib.. Michelin mxv4 or some crap like that all-seasons. Total trash for that car unless you drive like a granny.
p5sundevil
Member
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- 03.5 MidnightBlue p5
its apples to oranges when comparing offrd use to onrd yes, but not when comparing AWD to FWD on the same surface....because they both have their advantages and disadvantes on tarmac, whereas on dirt the FWD has many more disadvantages than AWD...so yes while it can be pretty similar when comparing AWD to FWD in some cases when you throw in the EXTRA factor of offrd use then its too much....the mazda wasnt designed to be used rally style like the wrx was plain and simple, whereas on the rd it shows how important finess(sp?) can be compared to grunt/brute force.
FWD drive advantages are pretty much just weight savings and less drivetrain loss. For me the daily driving benefits of FWD are better. I don't like to do +5000 RPM clutch slips/drops do take advantage of the AWD. I more or less want a car that will perform well from rolling speeds. The MS3 looks like it will fit that well. For reference, I am comming from an R32 into the MS3 if that says anything.
p5sundevil
Member
- :
- 03.5 MidnightBlue p5
it says your a wise man =)
If I was gonna even think of using my new car on our camping/fishing trips that would be one thing, but my buddy has a subaru legacy that we beat the s*** out of offrd and it likes it....no need for another one of those when I have more fun on the tracks than off.
If I was gonna even think of using my new car on our camping/fishing trips that would be one thing, but my buddy has a subaru legacy that we beat the s*** out of offrd and it likes it....no need for another one of those when I have more fun on the tracks than off.
I was surprised to see the acceleration #s...
The MS3 has a ton more hp and tq yet... everyone who defended mazdas's decision to go fwd says that it saves weight and creates less drivetrain loss.
According to MT, the cars weigh the same and, despite the mazda's potential advantage, it's actually slower.
The MS3 has a ton more hp and tq yet... everyone who defended mazdas's decision to go fwd says that it saves weight and creates less drivetrain loss.
According to MT, the cars weigh the same and, despite the mazda's potential advantage, it's actually slower.
so.... since both cars cost about the same (in the real world... wrxs can be had for around invoice which means their comparing stickers is like comparing... you know) so, again, since both cars are about the same price (when similarly equipped) and weigh the same... when the wrx has awd and is faster, what exactly is our motivation supposed to be for getting the ms3? nicer interior? fugly wheels? hatch versatility? (the wrx wagon can be had for well under invoice these days)
I'm just really surprised the ms3 is as slow as it is...
Mazda predicted mid 5 second 0-60 times... maybe I'm making more of this than I should but, from the start, all I heard was how much money and weight mazda would save by going fwd. this would translate into a lower cost, faster car. from what I see... there must be something lost in translation.
I'm just really surprised the ms3 is as slow as it is...
Mazda predicted mid 5 second 0-60 times... maybe I'm making more of this than I should but, from the start, all I heard was how much money and weight mazda would save by going fwd. this would translate into a lower cost, faster car. from what I see... there must be something lost in translation.
and that something is tq steer.... with a boost limiter in the first two gears the 0-60 is going to be a bit less then the numbers would reveal..only thing i can say that would make it a bit better is a rolling 3rd gear pull it should pretty much beat or stay with most anything out there... (stock for stock)
CHICO2003 said:
Personally, I never thought FWD would have a faster 0-60 time than AWD even with less power. But the .4 second time difference is due the extra shift needed on the 6-speed. The MS3 went 50-60 in 1.7 seconds compared to 1.3 seconds for the WRX. Also, you have to wonder whether the 1000 RPM "launch" was really the most effective considering that's just off idle.
From 30-100, the MS3 went faster than the WRX during every 10 mph interval that didn't include a gear change, due to it's power-to-weight advantage. Admittedly, it's not as much as I thought it would be. I guess that's a tribute to the effect of AWD. What it gives up in drivetrain loss, it must make up for in traction. But from 60-90, it the MS3 that walks away from the WRX with a .5 second lead. If you want to bring in the WRX wagon or even make the sedan an Ltd, it would probably be a win for the MS6 0-60 even with the extra shift. The MS3 has an almost 100 lb advantage over the wagon and the Ltd. sedan. The Ltd wagon's definitely gonna lose 0-60 due to its 140 lb. weight penalty.
But if WRX's really are selling at invoice, then I suppose it boils down to drive em both and buy the one you like better. In this review, MT liked the MS3 better. Another comparo in Australia vs. the R32 said the same thing. Much more fun to drive. Everyone is free to do their own comparo and make their own subjective determinations about fugliness, versatility, fun-to-drive, etc.
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Nobody mentioned the fact that even though a WRX at invoice is similar price, the resale value won't be there. I know the resale for the MSP is pretty good and the MS3 will be pretty damn good too. For me, resale is a HUGE factor. When you go through cars every three years you want to make sure there is some equity built on the car.
RHAGEL said:
http://www.cars.com/go/alg/index.jsp?makename=Infiniti&modelname=G35&year=2006
37% after 5 years is actually a high residual value. WRX's do hold their value. See if you can find a reputable site that gives the breakdown on projected residual value for the Mazdaspeed3.
in residual value i think that the wrx will probably win.
Although the regular mazda 3 has been doing outstanding holding its value; it would be a lot different for a "specialty" car like the ms3. However some of the value will be boosted due to the limited production, so it may make up some value but overall i think the wrx may hold more of its value than the ms3.
mz3 > wrx > MS3
Although the regular mazda 3 has been doing outstanding holding its value; it would be a lot different for a "specialty" car like the ms3. However some of the value will be boosted due to the limited production, so it may make up some value but overall i think the wrx may hold more of its value than the ms3.
mz3 > wrx > MS3
Cult status has a lot to do with resale value. Your bound to get more for a car seen as special from a enthusiast than you are from someone looking for a point a-b car. That said, it may take longer to find someone. By the time I'm ready to sell this thing Im sure main stream cars will be running 13's flat, so this will just be another beater.
I'm not saying that the WRX doesn't have a high resale, but I can pretty much guaranty that the MS3 will still hold out better than the WRX. Mainly because of its limited availability. The only way I can see the resale of the MS3 drop off is if the car takes a crap at the dealers, which I highly doubt. Just like if we are talking about the limited STI's that are out there right now, I know those will hold their value pretty well. I think it's going to come down to suppy and demand, there are TONS of WRX's for sale and that will drive the resales prices down regardless of Kelly Blue Book prices.Micah said:
