~MSP~ SPEAKER SYSTEM ?'s

[MazdaSpeedSter]

(scratch) Um.........(uhm)
If anyone with a MSP has taken thier 8" sub enclosure out, you might know what I'm talking about...
(band) (band2)
I took mine out today just to see how it was put in there... The Amp as said powers the speakers and the sub... NO!!! It just powers the sub... Anyways, I thought where the "trunk" 6x9 speakers go, were the air ports for the sub... Nope!!! The 8" sub enclosure is sealed (kinda)... Anyways, again, there are no 6x9's there, it's covered by this black plastic cover, and there's wires for speakers pluged into a dummy holder thing... I wonder if there's any power going to the 6x9 wires... If I buy *2* 6x9's and install them there and plug the wire's in to the 6x9's, does anyone know if there will be music? That will mean there's two more speakers added to the system, if you keep the sub... I just put mine in a single sealed box for now till I change the amp and sub... Not sure if you guy's know what I'm talking about... But thanks for any help...(2thumbs)

 

[jurgs01]

Why would you plug in 6 x 9 speakers directly above the subwoofer? That would sound like s***. Of course the amp is dedicated only for the sub. The cables to the amp are from the subwoofer output on the deck so the are low-pass only. The other 6 speakers 2 fronts, 2 rears and 2 tweeters are powered from the deck (200 Watts RMS). If you are going to upgrade anything put in a JL audio sub to replace the stock sub. Our mids and highs sound very good in this car (and very balanced). Certainly not the best I've heard, but you're definately not going to upgrade the sound by putting 2 6x9s right by the sub enclosure.

 

[lncatch]

to thee guy making the 2nd post, it doesnt sound like s*** at all, i did it, but i wired a 2nd amp for them, itll sound good once i get an amp for the front speakers........
but to answer the question, i dont think ypu can do that cuz the head unit is setup to run on 4 ohm speakers prolly and if you do what you want to do then they will not be 4 ohms anymore, it will be 8 or 2 ohms, one of them, which will either lead to the speakers just not working (no actualy harm to the speakers) or overheating the headunit. besides, i dont think there are 6x9's that are shaoolow enough to fit in there with the sub box in, i looked all over for them myself and couldnt find any. hope that helps

 

[jurgs01]

Resistance is not additive in parallel. So, if you wire up the speakers in parallel with the rear L/R, the equivilant resistance will be less than the resistance of any speaker. Resistance in parallel is the inverse of the sum of the inverses of each load paralleled (if you can follow that). Since current is equal to the difference of potential divided by the total resistance, you need to figure out the the resistance that supplies the most power (which is equal to current times difference of potential). That said, you need to figure out if you are drawing more than your units max rated power before saying it will overheat. Since the current drawn by each speaker will be proportional to its individual resistance, you can see if this will be an efficient setup. In regard to your other statement; putting the 6 x 9 speakers right by the sub will not create optimal sound quality. If it did, wouldn't more quality systems be set up that way? It might not sound bad, but not optimal.

 

[mspdfreak]

I think two more speakers in the rear deck WILL soud like s***. I mean, if you don't use a crossover, you'll have the two 6x9s competing with the sub foe the lows. If you use a crossover, you'll get no bass out of the 6x9s anyway. I did as posted above. Removed the stock sub and replace with a JL 8w3v0. It's 4 ohms, as opposed to the stock 8 ohm stocker, so you actually get about 123w output instead of about 62w, which in reality, is all your getting out of the "250 watt" Kenwood amp. Some people have said they were concerned about overheating the inverted amp at 4 ohms, but I've had no problems six months later, and it thumps 10x better and cleaner. Oh, and that "450 watt system" advertisement is a load of s***. Every audio guy I've talked to just laughs. They all tell me the stock speakers suck, with the exception of the tweeters (which seem quite capable). They like the head unit, and reccomend the JL sub replacement if you just want better sound with the stock look. Oh, they also told me, as opposed to some on this board, to go with the JL 8w3v0, as opposed to the 8w3v2, because the stock amp can't really push the v2 effeciently, and is a better match with the v0. I have no reason to doubt them, as they had both in stock, and the v0 is almost 1/2 price of the v2.

 

[MazdaSpeedSter]

The sub enclosure is not in there... I took it out... But theres a place to put two 6x9's with wire to be plugged in... I have my stock sub in a regluar sealed box (which I'll probably change)... I wanna plug two 6x9's in there and see what happens...

 

[N1XRR]

Why would you plug in 6 x 9 speakers directly above the subwoofer? That would sound like s***. Of course the amp is dedicated only for the sub. The cables to the amp are from the subwoofer output on the deck so the are low-pass only. The other 6 speakers 2 fronts, 2 rears and 2 tweeters are powered from the deck (200 Watts RMS). If you are going to upgrade anything put in a JL audio sub to replace the stock sub. Our mids and highs sound very good in this car (and very balanced). Certainly not the best I've heard, but you're definately not going to upgrade the sound by putting 2 6x9s right by the sub enclosure.

200w rms? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Thats funny!

Try, 22w x4. Its a grand total of 88w RMS.

 

[jurgs01]

200w rms? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Thats funny!

Try, 22w x4. Its a grand total of 88w RMS.

That is the power supplied throughout the bandwidth (which is the range of frequencies that the deck can deliver to the speakers). The max power supplied is still 50W per channel. Nothing is rated in full bandwidth power, everthing is compared at max power. I'm not trying to contradict you because you are right in a sense, but when doing comparisons max power is what people are used to hearing.

 

[MazdaSpeedSter]

Yeah! like you never hear about RMS... It's always max watts...

 

[1sty]

That is the power supplied throughout the bandwidth (which is the range of frequencies that the deck can deliver to the speakers). The max power supplied is still 50W per channel. Nothing is rated in full bandwidth power, everthing is compared at max power. I'm not trying to contradict you because you are right in a sense, but when doing comparisons max power is what people are used to hearing.

Simply put, wrong.

RMS is not the power that the deck will provide throughout the Frequency band. As with most amplifier, a headunit should not put out any vary degree of power at different frequencies as it is supposed to simply and equaly amplify the given singal.

RMS power is the average playing power an amplifier is capable of producing. Max power refers to the power an amp can create for an extreamly short period of time and possibly in rare burst at that.

RMS power is the standard rating of the car audio industry. Max power is a ficticious marketing number that most amps that claim them will never even be able to produce. You will notice that once you leave the best buy and circuit city level of equptment that many companies won't even provide a max power spec. For instace, tell me the max power of a JL 1000/1. You can look for one until your head caves in, you'll never find one. The reality is that any company seeking to be compared by MAX specs is a cheap brand and should be avioded. This is much the reason for the CEA2006 ratings. They go a long way to explaining the BS in the industry to the customer.



As for the sound of a 6x9 in the rear of a car, it can be considered good or bad based on the users prefernce. However any sanctioned audio organization will bascily frown on rear speakers distracting from the front stage in any way. In my opinion, rear 6x9s can be used if the user cares nothing about imageing or stage. If the user simply wants louder music, then rear 6x9s will do the trick, infact they will tend to easily drowned out the front speakers.

The wires going to the 6x9s in the MSP are not hooked up on either side as the deck is playing the rear door speakers. The rear door speaker will either have to be re-run to the rear deck instead of doors or an amp must be added.

 

[1sty]

Yeah! like you never hear about RMS... It's always max watts...

From marketing departments of bad companies...yes
From engineering departments of reputable companies...no

 

[MazdaSpeedSter]

Aww! Crap! I only know of sh*t! ~lol~
(help) So you wouldn't recommend just adding 6x9's Do you think I can just change my amp and sub? What would you recommend

 

[1sty]

Aww! Crap! I only know of sh*t! ~lol~
(help) So you wouldn't recommend just adding 6x9's Do you think I can just change my amp and sub? What would you recommend

Its not that I don't recommend just adding 6x9's its that its not possible. You need something to power them. So either another amp or diverting the power from the rear speakers you already have.

With that bit of technicality out of the way, the problem with a reccomendatio is it has to be geared to who you like to listen to music. I can quote ideal setups all day long and how to obtain them but if thats not what you want then it will be of no use. Because of this anyone that is at all interested or knowledgable as an audio salesmen will know that they have to ask you a ton of questions. so here we go

In this case:
Why do you want to add 6x9's in the back?
What do you hope to gain from them?
What is it that the system is lacking now that you want to add?
What is the budget to do this?
Where will the prodcut be purchased from?
What level of equiptment are you interested in?

In General:
Do you like music in front of you like in a home setup and at a concert or do you prefer the sound be coming from primarily behind you?
DO you want the music to be even from the front to the back in other words, have a consumming effect?
What type of music are you playing?
What is already in the system?
What do you plan on adding to the system?
What is your goal in upgrading the system?

It might seem like a Pain in the ass but all of these let me know better who you are in regards to audio and how to best advice you. Now for me personaly, I wouldn't spend one cent on rear 6x9 speakers. I would put that money toward better front speakers and an amp for them. Also I would NEVER amplify rear speakers in a budget driven system. At most I would upgrade the rear speaker with a coaxle that compliment the front componets that I would use most of my budget for.

 

[MazdaSpeedSter]

Wow holy crap! lol!
I wasn't really planning on using 6x9's. just wanted to see if there was any power going to the wires back there since there hidden by the 8" bass enclosure...
~ well:
I need more bass!!! So the amp and sub is probably gone. Not sure what to get cause I just usually get stuff from stores. Like what good stuff from engineering departments of reputable companies were you talking about? Not too much bass, just enough to feel it nicely. I had a 500w a2 rockford punch amp powering two 12" 400w single voice coil punch H.E.'s I believe, had them bridged in my PR5 that got totaled. It sounded perfect bass wise. Now that the MSP's system is tuned pretty well, I'll just turn all bass down, and use power from NF level. What's NF levels stand for n/e ways I listen to all music, so I need a well rounded sound. But like the thumping for rap songs... Thanks for your help...

 

[jurgs01]

Simply put, wrong.

RMS is not the power that the deck will provide throughout the Frequency band. As with most amplifier, a headunit should not put out any vary degree of power at different frequencies as it is supposed to simply and equaly amplify the given singal.

RMS power is the average playing power an amplifier is capable of producing. Max power refers to the power an amp can create for an extreamly short period of time and possibly in rare burst at that.

RMS power is the standard rating of the car audio industry. Max power is a ficticious marketing number that most amps that claim them will never even be able to produce. You will notice that once you leave the best buy and circuit city level of equptment that many companies won't even provide a max power spec. For instace, tell me the max power of a JL 1000/1. You can look for one until your head caves in, you'll never find one. The reality is that any company seeking to be compared by MAX specs is a cheap brand and should be avioded. This is much the reason for the CEA2006 ratings. They go a long way to explaining the BS in the industry to the customer.



As for the sound of a 6x9 in the rear of a car, it can be considered good or bad based on the users prefernce. However any sanctioned audio organization will bascily frown on rear speakers distracting from the front stage in any way. In my opinion, rear 6x9s can be used if the user cares nothing about imageing or stage. If the user simply wants louder music, then rear 6x9s will do the trick, infact they will tend to easily drowned out the front speakers.

The wires going to the 6x9s in the MSP are not hooked up on either side as the deck is playing the rear door speakers. The rear door speaker will either have to be re-run to the rear deck instead of doors or an amp must be added.

Dude, you are an audio moderator you should know this. RMS is root mean squared. Everything is rated in RMS. Did I say 22W was the RMS voltage?? 22W is the power delivered to the speakers through the bandwidth. Look in your specs on the kenwood manual. EVERYTHING is rated in RMS. Your AC in your house is 115V RMS. Thats your peak voltage in AC (the amplitude) divided by the square root of two. This is so you can compare AC power to it's equal in DC.

 

[jersey_emt]

Dude, you are an audio moderator you should know this. RMS is root mean squared. Everything is rated in RMS. Did I say 22W was the RMS voltage?? 22W is the power delivered to the speakers through the bandwidth. Look in your specs on the kenwood manual. EVERYTHING is rated in RMS. Your AC in your house is 115V RMS. Thats your peak voltage in AC (the amplitude) divided by the square root of two. This is so you can compare AC power to it's equal in DC.

Sorry dude, 1sty's right.

And Root Mean Squared means:

Square Root of (Mean Watts^2)

The square root of the mean output wattage squared

 

[DragonSpeed]

Its not that I don't recommend just adding 6x9's its that its not possible. You need something to power them. So either another amp or diverting the power from the rear speakers you already have.

Question: I'm not even using the 8" sub atm since it sounds like the cone is busted or something but my dealer won't replace it :/ But that's another story, my question is can I use the amp used to power the 8" to power 2 6x9's that I would add to the rear? And if so, what 6x9's would u recommend to run off that kenwood amp?

Thanks in advance.

 

[servoeyes]

Question: I'm not even using the 8" sub atm since it sounds like the cone is busted or something but my dealer won't replace it :/ But that's another story, my question is can I use the amp used to power the 8" to power 2 6x9's that I would add to the rear? And if so, what 6x9's would u recommend to run off that kenwood amp?

Thanks in advance.

1) You could...
2) But why???? 6x9s in the rear are poop. Yes it will hurt the soundstage to power them with the Kenwood...you'd be better off powering the fronts off of that amp. Just get an 8" sub like a JL 8w0-4 or 8w3v2-d2 and slap it into the enclosure. Then you get a 4 ohm load presented to your amp. From there, either mount the amp somwhere else, or invert it and give it some breathing room in the location where it is. Currently, the Kenwood sub you have, is an 8ohm, so the amp is only giving half the power that it's capable of. Replacing your sub with one of the two I mentioned (or a number or other reputable brand's 8" subs) will give you more thump back there.

 

[N1XRR]

Dude, you are an audio moderator you should know this. RMS is root mean squared. Everything is rated in RMS. Did I say 22W was the RMS voltage?? 22W is the power delivered to the speakers through the bandwidth. Look in your specs on the kenwood manual. EVERYTHING is rated in RMS. Your AC in your house is 115V RMS. Thats your peak voltage in AC (the amplitude) divided by the square root of two. This is so you can compare AC power to it's equal in DC.

Uhhh, now your just throwing a bunch of terms together.

"22W is the power delivered to the speakers through the bandwidth."
What the hell does that mean?
22W is the power delivered to the speaker @ 4 ohms
The bandwidth is 5-30000hz, more or less...depending on the amp.

"Thats your peak voltage in AC (the amplitude)..."
Volts are not amps. Ohms law here dude: Volts = Amps x Ohms. Not the same thing.

 

[jurgs01]

I am not going to argue with you guys anymore. I was trying to relate RMS to Volts because it means the same thing wherever it is used. Jersey, look at what you said:

The square root of the mean watts squared or something like that. That is just the mean watts.

I respect all of you guys that are saying this crap, but this is what I do. I have been an electrician for 5 years and I am 3 year into my EE degree. RMS of anything is 0.707 times the peak of whatever you are saying is in RMS. I know Ohm's law, and if you knew the full thing you would know Power = Current x Voltage. And if the voltage is rated in RMS (which it all is, then the power is too, which is actually called average power, but no need to go further). An AC signal is delivered to the speakers (being that it varies in frequency with respect to the expected output). If you guys don't know s*** about electronics go to page 46 of your Kenwood manual. Top right (Audio section). What does it say is the full bandwidth power??? That is the power delivered through the full bandwidth of frequencies that the head unit can deliver. The maximum output power (50W x 4) is in RMS, as is the Full bandwidth power. We help design and test s*** like this. I am not going to argue about this anymore because it is way off topic and a waste of time.