MSP Engine Swap Notes

[jeffmsp]

MSP Engine Swap Notes (UPDATE NEW PICS PAGE 2 + 3)

Engine swap is done. Drove the car for 250+KMs now. Started first turn, even quicker than when it was new. Comp test 205-220. Car drives like new. Idles perfect. Pulls harder than my old motor ever did when it was stock. Seems like a high 14 second car without having tobeat the s*** out of it with no mods aside from the exhaust and mounts, 6psi. My clutch looks like new after 100,000KM of hard driving. No heat marks or anything, guess I am not a tard. Only thing I am worried about is the passenger side axle seal on the trans leaked for the first 50KMs but I refilled it and havent noticed any leakage since. Here are some notes to others that are replacing their tired FSDE.

1. When you are removing the oil cooler from the back of the motor you will need to remove the piece your oil filter screws into and get it onto the new motor. All you need to do is crack the nut, unscrew it until it is almost of, then thred the oil filter on about a cm or 2. Then hold the nut with a wrench and the filter with the other hand, twist until the threaded piece is loose from the block. then just install oil cooler on n/a motor.

2. You will need to swap the upper oil pan to get the msp turbo oil drain line to work with the n/a motor. Remove all bolts on the upperpan and do not forget the 2 on the main seal that are attached to the upper oil pan.

3. You will need to swap the coolant lines that go from theback and side of the motor to the front and the housing.

4. Exhaust manifold bolts are torqued to 14-16 pounds. Flywheel Bolts 97-102Nm / 70.9-75.9 ft. lbs Clutch Cover 18-26 Nm / 14-19 ft. lbs Drive Plate Installation Bolts 97-102Nm / 70.9-75.9 ft. lbs


5. If you get confused with the wiring justremember that each connectors is unique so you cant screw it up, if it fits together its in the right place.

6. Protege shop manual for anything you cant figure out:

http://www.pulledover.org/imports/downloads.php

I am very pleased with my swap. It was not hard at all and was worth every one of the 85000 CDN pennies I paid to do it.

MSP for teh win. (first) Ultimate stock appearing buildup begins.

 

[arlsmazdaspeed]

Nice! Was there any difference with this motor from your stock motor?

 

[jeffmsp]

well either the dealership beat the s*** out of my car before i got it (only had like 50kms on it) or I just got not the greatest motor cause my original never had more than 200psi in a cylinder and after not too long was down to 180 accross the board. This motor is right where is should be betweeen 205-220 so i think that accounts for the extra zoom stock for stock. I am going to install my afc v2 in a couple days and try tuning 9-10psi before s*** really starts getting nuts. I am gonna buy one of those cords to uploads pics from my cam to the comp to show you guys the pics if i ever get a day off this week,

 

[kamon8404]

well either the dealership beat the s*** out of my car before i got it (only had like 50kms on it) or I just got not the greatest motor cause my original never had more than 200psi in a cylinder and after not too long was down to 180 accross the board. This motor is right where is should be betweeen 205-220 so i think that accounts for the extra zoom stock for stock. I am going to install my afc v2 in a couple days and try tuning 9-10psi before s*** really starts getting nuts. I am gonna buy one of those cords to uploads pics from my cam to the comp to show you guys the pics if i ever get a day off this week,

Will you be tuning 9-10 psi with stock pipes/intercooler/and exhaust?

 

[jeffmsp]

3" catless exhaust, colder copper plugs, 94 octane, DSM V2 AFC with wideband 02. Stock boost with 91 octane.

 

[jeffmsp]

Ive put well over 5000kms on this new motor and it pulls harder then the other one ever did.

I completely dismantled the old motor and the results are not pretty. Me and blkzoomzoom were both right about the outcome lol ultrafucked rod bearings, bent rod. I took a ton of pics, i should have them downloaded later tonight or tomorrow. Already got into an accident, some ****** rear ended my mint speed.

 

[69RMSP]

jeff couldnt u paint the vaulve cover lol...


I need some isntallation help aswelll dude... i gotta pull the turbo out to my the atp wga on and cork sport s/j pipe

 

[BOOSTR]

Good to see that you have it running again. I want to see those other pictures of the damaged parts.

 

[jeffmsp]

i did paint the valve cover..it looks like s*** cause it dried in -20 degree weather, but still looks better then it did before. (was never cleaned by the lway it looked)

ok as for the broken motor. I am stuck in a chicken and the Egg thing here.

The number 2 rod is bent and the piston looks to be in almost the exact same condition as the others, however it was cleaned either by a large amount of detonation or by something bouncing around in the cylinder, or perhaps some weird combustion characteristic after the compression ratio was changed by the bent rod and lack of proper sized rod bearing. The outsides of the piston are perfectly cleaned, the middle is all black and carbon built. All other 3 pistons are the same, carbon everywhere, still in great shape considering they saw 1 bar of boost plenty of times with stock ecu and injectors. Piston rings are not damaged either. Cannot say how happy I am with the stock pistons, great pieces for stock.

Now what went first the rod bearing or the rod. The rod bearings melted and fused together into a sold " O " rather then two " C" s kinda thing. The bearing was then worn down so much that it is literally paper thin, and an entire section of the bearing was worn out so you could literally see through to the crank. I tried to take a binch of pics of it, still waiting on that Fing i580cell phone usb camera cable. With the bearing worn out like this there was a great deal of free play and this is how it started knocking. Motor still ran when i pulled it out.

So what do you guys think happend? This ordeal happend cruising at like 5% throttle in 5th gear, I was stock and at stock boost for over 5000kms before it started knocking or making any bad sounds, this is why I am thinking the bearing wore out after 100,000KMs and the rod got enough play that when I gave it full throttle it slowly bend the rod out of shape.

The cylinder head was in almost perfect condition, cam lobes and lifters have NO scratches and I didnt find any metal shavings in anything up top, just in the bottom end.

So what do you guys think, did the bearings wear out from the oil pump scavenging issue which after time caused the rod to bend? Or was the rod bent and still drove fine but slowly wore out the bearings until the motor started knocking?

Either way I am very impressed with the stock FSDE motor. Cant say enough good stuff about it. If this new one lasts 100,000KMs at 1bar on the stock motor again I will be more then happy. Its nice to get a new motor every 100KM especially when they are this dirt cheap and easy to install. I think the best I have had the motor making has been in the 230-250WHP area, not bad for a $800 CDN motor lol WITH WARRANTY LOL ahahaha fs for the win

ADAM: Whats wrong with your wastegate man? You sure you hooked it up right? Removing the turbo is not too bad, just lots of mess everywhere lol

now the questions is, should I build a forged motor or just keep swapping in stockers....its a tough decisions considering the entire motor costs so little especially if I get new manifolds this time around. either way its cold as **** here and I cant get traction in any gear with snow on the ground so for now ill just count the money rather then spend it.

 

[smo0f]

well, you gotta ask yourself is, if you get it forged, and get the car up to a nice power level, are you gonna keep the car and drive it into the ground? or do you forsee yourself getting a different car in the near future? also know that a modded car, especially a heavily modded car, is going to need constant attention, and more stuff is likely to break or need changing than it would normally. the expenses don't just stop at the forged motor. you're also going to need motor mounts to get the most out of the motor, so that's a big loss of comfort inside the cabin. i say keep it as is. the car is very enjoyable when it's stock, something i learned the hard way.

 

[nvmsp]

cool s***.

 

[jeffmsp]

I am already stock

solid front tranny mount that I sold to adam but he never picked up
mbc
3" catless exhaust with stock muffler
dsm afc v2
and my methenol injection kit that I havent put back in yet. I wanna wait to do a individual methenol needle for each intake runner with the 626 mani this time around. should cost me less then $20 since I already have the kit just need 3 more needles and a couple small things hehe.
I have the revised mazdaspeed torsen style lsd
K and N panel filter in stock box and I still have the little Callaway elbow.
still need a wideband, port the exhaust manifold and get a J and S to finish my s*** off. Should be quite the stock appearing msp.

 

[nvmsp]

what do u plan on boosting with this stock motor?

 

[jeffmsp]

10psi with the stock injectors
12psi with stock injectors and methenol
14psi with wrx 440s and methenol
all 94 gas

1 stock (9 spike down to 7ishpsi) boost 91 octane map

 

[SeR_Cyclops]

jeff couldnt u paint the vaulve cover lol...


I need some isntallation help aswelll dude... i gotta pull the turbo out to my the atp wga on and cork sport s/j pipe

i did mine in like 15 min with a lift i didnt take the turbo off just the heat sinc around the wga and the wga jesus ( c clip) on the back of the arm not hard at all.

 

[69RMSP]

no your right its just that we can make a 12 pack out of it...

QUOTE=SeR_Cyclops]i did mine in like 15 min with a lift i didnt take the turbo off just the heat sinc around the wga and the wga jesus ( c clip) on the back of the arm not hard at all.[/QUOTE]

 

[MrDiggler]

That's a really interesting question about what went first or what caused what to happen. I had something similar happen with a used motor in my Trans Am. I finally figured out that the rod bearing spun first, which allowed the rod/piston to move far enough up in the bore that the piston actually smacked the head, which dented the piston but didn't hurt the cast iron head. This extra clearance also allowed the piston skirt to catch the crank counterweight (amazing how close these parts come to hitting each other normally), which broke a big chunk out of the piston skirt. The motor was still running when I pulled it.

I don't think a worn bearing could cause a rod to bend unless the bearing spun or seized. Based on that, I would guess that the rod bent first. The bent rod would shorten your stroke, which won't put the piston all the way up to its normal TDC position. This would change the quench area and flame pattern, which could explain the weirdness you see on top of that piston. This is all a guess until someone with FS experience steps in and clears it up.

 

[jeffmsp]

what i was thinking was that since the bearing wore away and the rod had room to move around in all directions it became bent from combusting at a weird angle. The cylinder walls look a bit ruffer for that cylinder too. It is not severely bent, if you line it up with the other rods it is noticable but looking straight at it the bend is not that obvious. I am also thinking the compression was lowered from the bend, but when i rotated the crank to see if it would look different then the others at tdc it barely looked different as far as being flat with the block deck but who knows. I just reexamined the pistons and they are really in good shape, no scrapes or small pieces missing, just carbon buildup, otherwise all including the one on the bend rod look great. Piston rings look good too.

 

[Notorious_V.I.C]

How much did the dealership charge to install the new engine? Did you provide all the forged internals and they built it for you?? How long did they take?

 

[69RMSP]

They would charge their hourly fees but besdies that they dont specalize in built motors, wouldnt you perfer someone who does?

oh..I wonder if it's possible to give the dealership forged internals and all the things required and see if they can build the engine. But I'm sure the dealership would charge a ricdiously large amount..