MS6 - Thinking About Buying

[Col]

I currently have a 2008 WRX which is coming to the end of it's lease. I don't really want to make the buyout because I find the car too soft, while the weak turbo isn't my favourite thing. I also have a new baby and could use something a little smoother to drive. On the other hand, the WRX is nothing but smiles and giggles during Calgary winters. Yeah, I'm one of those guys who actually goes for a drive for no reason other than "it's snowing"

So I came across the 6. The engine feels strong with a flatter torque curve than the WRX (overall performance is similar). The one I drove felt fairly soft though and had tracking issues - I found the steering always wanted to center but the car sometimes pulled to the left. I also noted some scrapes on the driver's side wheels which could suggest a past sideways trip to a sidewalk. Not the best introduction... so what can I really expect from a 6? The main questions that I have are:

1. How is the 6 on snow in ultra-cold weather (assume that I'll have winter tires)? Will I be able to get the sideways like with the WRX and maintain control, or am I just looking at dependability with the part-time AWD? Or is it more on par with a FWD?

2. How is the car on maintenance? As in, is this an expensive car to keep running? Are there specific problems I should look for when buying? Can I make regular 600mile trips across the Rockies in winter without worrying about breakdowns?

3. How "soft" is the suspension? Ideally I'd like a Golf GTI - sticks to the road with minimal body roll, but is still comfortable - but there's barely space for a stroller and those trips across the Rockies become a little scary. The Impreza and the Legacy (haven't tried a Spec B) have the comfort and the safety, but don't inspire confidence with agressive driving in the dry. I'll be honest - when on my own I do like to have fun, but do I have to sacrifice this to have a family-sized car?

Cheers!

Col

 

[VRMS6]

I can personally vouch to the fact that the MS6 with the right snow/winter tires is a awsome car in bad weather... First winter I had the car I got a set of Blizzacks WS60's mounted on Sport Edition Fox2 wheels. Went on a trip to Ct to visit family... It was rainy in Md to start the trip no biggie... Temp dropped as we went further north. Rain turned into a full fledged ice storm in NY... Car never wavered in its driving due to the Tires and AWD....

 

[coyfish]

I can't comment on cold weather performance since I live in florida. Reliability seems to be pretty solid. Aside from the "lemons" most of the mazdaspeeds are breaching the 80K mark relatively problem free. Notorious problems are fuel pump issues which isn't too expensive and smoking turbos on older 06 models. My advice would be to find a late model 06 or an 07.

The suspension is soft. Its not as bad as a honda accord or camry but it is a decent sized AWD sedan moving a hefty weight. The ride is very comfortable. Ive been in an 03suby WRX and that thing felt hard as hell. Springs alone will eliminate most of the body roll and they are cheap.


Not sure what you mean by "weak turbo" because the speed 6 also has a small turbo. Has more torque though.

 

[Col]

The 08 WRX is waaay too soft - they were slated and went a little stiffer on the 09. I think Subaru are trying to appeal to a different market than in previous years. I don't have the confidence to throw it into a corner like with other cars I have owned. I thought it was just me getting older until I tested the 2010 GTI and found it much more predictable. I'm sure stiffer sways and coilovers will solve the problem, but I can't afford the buyout AND the parts. I guess I have to try the MS6 to really know if it's better...

VRMS6... same tires that we have on the Protege, they're awesome! Do you ever "play" in the snow as well? The biggest thing I love about the WRX is that you can throw the car around when no one is near, and flip to sensible driving in no time when another car or pedestrians come into sight. I will go out at night and have fun on empty roads when the weather is really bad . Can you do that in the MS6 or is the AWD just about safety?

Edit: My personal experience is the the 08 WRX turbo is not great (again, changed in 09). It doesn't always seem to pull strongly, and tails off quickly.

 

[coyfish]

You can definately throw the speed 6 around in the snow just like any AWD car.

 

[VRMS6]

The 08 WRX is waaay too soft - they were slated and went a little stiffer on the 09. I think Subaru are trying to appeal to a different market than in previous years. I don't have the confidence to throw it into a corner like with other cars I have owned. I thought it was just me getting older until I tested the 2010 GTI and found it much more predictable. I'm sure stiffer sways and coilovers will solve the problem, but I can't afford the buyout AND the parts. I guess I have to try the MS6 to really know if it's better...

VRMS6... same tires that we have on the Protege, they're awesome! Do you ever "play" in the snow as well? The biggest thing I love about the WRX is that you can throw the car around when no one is near, and flip to sensible driving in no time when another car or pedestrians come into sight. I will go out at night and have fun on empty roads when the weather is really bad . Can you do that in the MS6 or is the AWD just about safety?

Edit: My personal experience is the the 08 WRX turbo is not great (again, changed in 09). It doesn't always seem to pull strongly, and tails off quickly.

Havent had the oppourtunity to play in the snow as much as Id like.. In Md we mainly get ice/slush not alot of snow... Hopefully this year will be a snowy one as I love the snow.....

 

[zinger002]

You can definately throw the speed 6 around in the snow just like any AWD car.

i would have to disagree, it seems to lack the constant awd power to the back to keep a slide going. my car seems to want to get sideways in a controlable manner but then tapers back to auto correcting like a fwd car.

 

[coyfish]

i would have to disagree, it seems to lack the constant awd power to the back to keep a slide going. my car seems to want to get sideways in a controlable manner but then tapers back to auto correcting like a fwd car.

DSC on ???? There are youtube videos of speed 6's "drifting" in snow and on street for quite a while very smoothly. I haven't been sideways on the snow (just the street) but it felt AWD to me and im coming from a WRX.

 

[Col]

DSC on ???? There are youtube videos of speed 6's "drifting" in snow and on street for quite a while very smoothly. I haven't been sideways on the snow (just the street) but it felt AWD to me and im coming from a WRX.

For sure you have to turn DSC off to maintain a controlled slide - otherwise the computer will take over, meaning that you are no longer in control. I always turn mine off in the WRX when it snows. I think I'll have to take a look at youtube...

How did you like going from the WRX to the MS6? What do you miss about the Rex and what are you glad to leave behind? How durable is the MS6 clutch?

I was going to test a couple of dealer cars this weekend, but we just got a snow storm in. Perfect for testing, but unfortunately that 90 minute round trip can become a 3 hour jaunt each way once the inevitable pile-up happens (and my wife needs a break from the 6 week old baby this weekend!). I'll see if I can find some time . There's an '07 with 23,000 miles and an 06 with 27,000 - how much could I expect to pay for each? It would be interesting to compare Canadian and US prices (we get a bad deal up here).

 

[Col]

I tried the '07 in snow today. The '08 WRX is full time 50/50 AWD and easier to slide around in tight spaces. It doesn't feel so composed at speeds though (probably the stock suspension). The MS6 felt the opposite - composed with normal driving, but not so nimble in tight spaces. I think the 6 is more "grown up", but maybe not quite as good in the deep stuff (but I didn't get stuck in a 40cm drift). I think I would enjoy the 6, and it's probably the better option now that I have a new baby (size and comfort). I'll try the '06 on Monday and see which one is the better value (although the newer one is with a more reputable dealer).

 

[keymaster]

The 2006 model has a few things that were improved for 2007, mainly the clutch underwent a redesign and the turbos in the 2006s smoke more than the 2007s. I drove a couple 2006s and 2007s while looking, and the clutch in the 2007 I ended up with was a lot more friendly. If you can get a 2007, it's probably worth it, especially if it is still under warranty.

 

[avarela86]

MS6=FAKE AWD. Stick to the Subby, they have ALWAYS been an AWD car manufacturer.

 

[coyfish]

My 02 WRX was a PITA. Was in the shop all the time. Had tranny replaced twice and other suspension nightmares. It was automatic though so I can't comment on clutch. Tons of squeeks and rattles and just a rough all around ride. Thats the tradeoff for good handling though. The thing was on rails. Anyway I won't list everything i liked / disliked but ill compare the 2.

The speed 6 is bigger / heavier and more comfortable. Because of that you get more body roll / inferior handling. Thats expected.

What I don't miss about the WRX is the rattles / noises / vibrations / loudness / uncomfort / tranny issues. Keep in mind my car wasn't raced and was 100% stock. That was before I was bit by the mod bug.

What i liked about the wrx was the handling / looks / great gear ratios. The short ratios of the 6 really piss me off. It doesn't help acceleration or daily driving.

You can have fun with the speed 6 in snow. It may not be perfect 100% 50/50 all the time but it will work through rough snow terrains.

The 6 is more refined with better audio. Never had an issue with it (knock on wood) aside from problems I caused myself with mods.

Its just a very balanced car between comfort / handling / looks with above average power. Its a family man's car who likes to subtly have a little fun. If you wan't to take your car in any extreme (like very refined or drag strip monster) then you may wan't to rethink other options.

 

[6-Speed-6]

The Mazda AWD is a pretty advanced system. It will send more power to the back wheels as you increase the throttle or it detects slippage. You can also bypass the AWD system all together and run the car in FWD only. I have done this on some long trips and the gas mileage gains are there.

The things I don't like about mine are the seat warmers (Way too hot), the gearing (way too high RPM on the highway), and the clutch (Very touchy).

 

[coyfish]

Used my seat warmer for the first time last night with athletic pants on. I live in florida but it was a good 50 degrees last night. Felt good but had to turn it off and on because it got toasty ! Better a little too hot than too cold imo.

 

[6-Speed-6]

Used my seat warmer for the first time last night with athletic pants on. I live in florida but it was a good 50 degrees last night. Felt good but had to turn it off and on because it got toasty ! Better a little too hot than too cold imo.

50 degrees!! I love floridians. I am down there once every couple of months on business and I just laugh.

 

[Col]

Thanks for the replies. I thought the clutch seemed smoother on the 07 than the 06, so thanks for the explanation on that. I also hear you about the seat warmers, it's a shame that they don't have a low setting. That being said, at -18C like today too much heat is better than none! It's also a shame that you can't switch to full time AWD - that would be more useful in winter than being able to switch to FWD in summer.

Coyfish - the 08 Subie is slated for being too soft and after two years I still don't really have a feel for the handling. If you throw it into a corner in the dry it has waaaay to much body roll and understeer. I know it's just a new set of coilovers and sways away from being awesome, but I can't afford that anytime soon. I'm also worried about maintenance - I have already had to replace a clutch for $2k and I don't race it. It's is hard to engage without a little slippage, but Subaru's advice was to engage then accelerate. Great, I get to jolt my 6 week old between gears... oh, then there's the snow - it stalls in first trying to pull away in deep snow below about 2.5k revs, but the clutch burns above that. Either Subie designed the 08 badly or else I have a lemon.

So I'm toying with replacing with either an 06/07 MS6 or WRX. What I want is a fast but smooth ride with predictable and above average handling. I want to be able to plough through slush and snow whilst others are getting stuck. I also want reliability and a car that will last at least the 5 years that I will be paying it off over. I also want to have fun (not ready to grow up just yet). Here's the problem - mine has a buy out of $28k (Canadian) and has 18k miles, whilst any 06/07 at the same price as the 07 MS6 ($24k, 22k miles) will have over 40k on it. It's hard to judge a car on a couple of test runs - I would rather keep my 08 if I thought it was going to be as good or better than the MS6 or older WRX's. I am stuck with my choice for at least 5 years hence my dilemma!

Edit: One other question - I'm reading that the power tails off at 5500rpm, and an AP will fix that. Does the stock setup have issues with the Cobb OTS stg 1 map in terms of reliability?

 

[Mistersix]

i have a baby as well and am glad i stepped up from a compact(02 lancer) to a midsize, the ms6.

theres just enough from for the car seat and some other stuff and passengers. i could'nt imagine tryin it with a compact chassis. i'm sure it works but it would suck none the less.

a compact car will usually be more tossable than a mid size. my lancer was way slower but much more tossable than my ms6. i've done autox in both cars. and i have a miata for summer fun. so i know a lil about "tossable". and the ms6 is just not.

it will take some suspension tuning to get the best outta the ms6. but that's about true for any sedan. especially a midsize.

you would think you could "feel" the part time awd kickin in and out. but i've never noticed it. in dry or wet roads.

here's a lil info. maybe this will help.

Front/rear wheel torque varies between 100/0 and 50/50 through an electronic
torque coupling mounted in front of the rear differential
100/0 is only used when the hand brake is applied or at low speeds during
tight turns (parking lot maneuvers)
Many AWD systems in FWD cars require front wheel slip (viscous couplings)
before power is transferred to the rear, MAZDASPEED6 has a strong rear
wheel bias in most driving conditions
Almost constant torque to the rear requires a water cooled transfer unit

 

[coyfish]

The power does tail off at about 5600rpm. An AP will alleviate that a bit but unless you upgrade the turbo its still best to shift around 5600. The good thing is that you get boost fast and down low in the rpm range. So its a tradeoff. You can have a later spool with more top end or visa versa. Mazda seemed to go a little to aggressive with the short ratios / turbo than they should have. Anyway as I mentioned thats one of the lowpoints of the speed 6. Get used to shifting because you will be doing it alot. Its cool to hit full boost almost instantly at around 3K though. You slam the gas and you go. No waiting for the spool.

The speed 6 does have good handling. It has body roll but with a 300 dollar spring set and a 100 dollar sway bar you can alleviate a lot of that. Ive taken some turns very hard and it really holds on. Don't feel out of control for a second. I tried the same thing in my moms lexus es350 (rwd) and man that was scary.

Have you seen the top gear speed 6 review ??? Starts at like 2 min.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1OBqrfIQOM&feature=fvw

 

[Mistersix]

cool vid. thanks for the link.