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MazdaSpeed 3 TCS/DSC COMPLETELY off.... possibly....
- Thread starter kessragnell
- Start date
it feels different compared to when i break traction and chirp in my past cars,
integra, prelude, accord, civic even.
It almost feels like the car doesnt give me a lot of torque from 1-2nd gear even with traction dsc/other one off.
i can def feel the car pull though.
Thats because it doesn't. Torque is limited in 1st and 2nd even with TCS/DSC off. The ECU limits the boost and throttle plate in those gears.
The DSC just closes the throttle plate when it detects wheel spin.
Ok guys. I'm a little confused. . . My owners manual says that if I turn off the DSC manually, it also turns off the TCS.
It's been raining here the past few days so I decided to test out the whole DSC/TCS thing. So with DSC On, I've been punching it in first and second getting the traction light to come on (blink repeatedly) thereby verifying that the TCS unit is working.
Following that I turned off DSC (not doing this mod, just hitting the button) and re-tried my test. Sure enough, the tires spun like crazy. No TCS light illuminating, just wheel spin. . so what's the use in actually getting this light to illuminate? A warm fuzzy feeling inside? I mean, turning off DSC seems to also turn off TCS. . . so what's the big deal here???? (dunno)
It's been raining here the past few days so I decided to test out the whole DSC/TCS thing. So with DSC On, I've been punching it in first and second getting the traction light to come on (blink repeatedly) thereby verifying that the TCS unit is working.
Following that I turned off DSC (not doing this mod, just hitting the button) and re-tried my test. Sure enough, the tires spun like crazy. No TCS light illuminating, just wheel spin. . so what's the use in actually getting this light to illuminate? A warm fuzzy feeling inside? I mean, turning off DSC seems to also turn off TCS. . . so what's the big deal here???? (dunno)
fourthmeal
Banned
The "full-off" setting appears to completely disable all computer intervention, like off-throttle rear lift and drift. If you want to see the difference, I highly recommend not being on a road with people on it, as the change is dramatic and may surprise you. Our understeering FWD car behaves quite differently when all computer intervention is denied. It behaves much more neutral, possibly with dangerous results if you aren't prepared.
Take a turn while trail-braking and check it out for yourself (on a closed course with a professional driver of course <wink>)
Take a turn while trail-braking and check it out for yourself (on a closed course with a professional driver of course <wink>)
AutoXRacer
Member
The "full-off" setting appears to completely disable all computer intervention, like off-throttle rear lift and drift. If you want to see the difference, I highly recommend not being on a road with people on it, as the change is dramatic and may surprise you. Our understeering FWD car behaves quite differently when all computer intervention is denied. It behaves much more neutral, possibly with dangerous results if you aren't prepared.
Take a turn while trail-braking and check it out for yourself (on a closed course with a professional driver of course <wink>)
Do would it behave like a rear drive car? I'll be doing this test on the next autocross!!! SWEET!!!
fourthmeal
Banned
It behaves like a Porsche on throttle-lift conditions. You'd be crazy to not disable the system on Autocross runs. You need the rotation, definitely.
AutoXRacer
Member
It behaves like a Porsche on throttle-lift conditions. You'd be crazy to not disable the system on Autocross runs. You need the rotation, definitely.
I've never driven a Porsche...(scratch)
I've driven a Miata...? Does that count?(huh)
(lol2)
fourthmeal
Banned
To explain further:
An off-throttle or trail-braking and steering maneuver at higher speeds will result in a drifting rear end if the conditions are right. It is fully controllable, and FUN. But, you've to be expecting it, or it might catch you. With the computer intervening fully, all these shenanigans are kept in check, and you understeer.
From what I've noticed, the DSC "off" light is actually representing the traction control system being off, not the DSC itself. The full disable that we've figured out here takes both systems out completely, except for the brake force distribution and ABS systems.
An off-throttle or trail-braking and steering maneuver at higher speeds will result in a drifting rear end if the conditions are right. It is fully controllable, and FUN. But, you've to be expecting it, or it might catch you. With the computer intervening fully, all these shenanigans are kept in check, and you understeer.
From what I've noticed, the DSC "off" light is actually representing the traction control system being off, not the DSC itself. The full disable that we've figured out here takes both systems out completely, except for the brake force distribution and ABS systems.
AutoXRacer
Member
To explain further:
An off-throttle or trail-braking and steering maneuver at higher speeds will result in a drifting rear end if the conditions are right. It is fully controllable, and FUN. But, you've to be expecting it, or it might catch you. With the computer intervening fully, all these shenanigans are kept in check, and you understeer.
From what I've noticed, the DSC "off" light is actually representing the traction control system being off, not the DSC itself. The full disable that we've figured out here takes both systems out completely, except for the brake force distribution and ABS systems.
We have brake force distribution...? (huh)
fourthmeal
Banned
I believe so. At least in the form of being able to control the brake strength during a cornering situation. It certainly feels like it. Try all three modes of the DSC/TCS on the same (safe) corner, and tell me what you think.
AutoXRacer
Member
I believe so. At least in the form of being able to control the brake strength during a cornering situation. It certainly feels like it. Try all three modes of the DSC/TCS on the same (safe) corner, and tell me what you think.
I'll have to wait till my first autocross in January... I don't know of any "safe" corners out here... I haven't really pushed this car yet in handling...
So 3 modes...?
(1) All systems enabled
(2) TCS off
(3) TCS and DSC off
Is that right?
fourthmeal
Banned
Exactly. Find a patch of parking lot and try this stuff out.
AutoXRacer
Member
Exactly. Find a patch of parking lot and try this stuff out.
Cool, thanks!!!!(2thumbs)
I will try this out!!(drive)
To explain further:
An off-throttle or trail-braking and steering maneuver at higher speeds will result in a drifting rear end if the conditions are right. It is fully controllable, and FUN. But, you've to be expecting it, or it might catch you. With the computer intervening fully, all these shenanigans are kept in check, and you understeer.
From what I've noticed, the DSC "off" light is actually representing the traction control system being off, not the DSC itself. The full disable that we've figured out here takes both systems out completely, except for the brake force distribution and ABS systems.
Why would Mazda do this? Wouldn't it just be easier to turn the system off completely? So you're saying that the owners manual is incorrect and therefore Mazda is misrepresenting information?
fourthmeal
Banned
YEP!
The "DSC Off" switch to your left at the dashboard simply turns off the primary traction control and is evidenced by the fact that with this switch off, you can easily spin the tires at will. But this mode retains the skid control and other dynamic stability features. Try it yourself if you are in doubt, but do it in a controlled environment.
IMO, its probably just so people don't sue Mazda for something that was their choice to turn off. By making it fully disabled via the complicated start-up way (and not placing instructions for that in the manual), they protect themselves against someone who turns the whole system off, then slides rear-end first into a brick wall.
The "DSC Off" switch to your left at the dashboard simply turns off the primary traction control and is evidenced by the fact that with this switch off, you can easily spin the tires at will. But this mode retains the skid control and other dynamic stability features. Try it yourself if you are in doubt, but do it in a controlled environment.
Why would Mazda do this? Wouldn't it just be easier to turn the system off completely? So you're saying that the owners manual is incorrect and therefore Mazda is misrepresenting information?
IMO, its probably just so people don't sue Mazda for something that was their choice to turn off. By making it fully disabled via the complicated start-up way (and not placing instructions for that in the manual), they protect themselves against someone who turns the whole system off, then slides rear-end first into a brick wall.
YEP!
The "DSC Off" switch to your left at the dashboard simply turns off the primary traction control and is evidenced by the fact that with this switch off, you can easily spin the tires at will. But this mode retains the skid control and other dynamic stability features. Try it yourself if you are in doubt, but do it in a controlled environment.
IMO, its probably just so people don't sue Mazda for something that was their choice to turn off. By making it fully disabled via the complicated start-up way (and not placing instructions for that in the manual), they protect themselves against someone who turns the whole system off, then slides rear-end first into a brick wall.
I'm sorry, that doesn't make any sense to me. If Mazda puts it in the manual and the indicator reads DSC Off, then I would assume that the Dynamic Stability Control system is off. They have covered their butt there. They have also covered it by making it default to being ON when the vehicle is started.
If it was just the TSC system turning off, I would think they would put a "TCS Off". By having a "DSC Off" button & indicator showing up on the dash but yet having the TCS unit being the actual unit that is OFF then Mazda leaves themselves up for lawsuits for misrepresentation.
I still strongly believe that this whole TCS/DSC completely OFF mod is a hoax. I think what has happened is that you've tricked the dash lights into coming on but nothing more. It is therefore my belief is that the two systems are either completely ON or completely OFF with no inbetween. It's clearly stated in the owners manual that way and it seems to follow my tests so far. Not to mention its much easier to program an electronic system to be either On or Off. I'll have to test it out more, but as of now, that seems the most logical.
fourthmeal
Banned
Listen up:
The car behaves completely different from one mode to the next.
This is no hoax, and I don't know why Mazda in their infinite wisdom (did I mention my F-ing engine fell out of my car!!?!) chose to do it this way, but if you drive the car in each mode, it will become apparent to you, too.
Take the car out to a race track and try each mode. A couple have tried this, and discovered the car is faster on the "full off" mode compared with the other two. Why? I assume its because the "full off" mode provides ZERO computer intervention compared with the other two, and as such you can rotate the car around and get it to slide around a bit, which is beneficial on a closed-course race track.
To reiterate:
Leaving all systems nominal from KOEO (Key On Engine On), you have full traction control, as well as full dynamic stability control. Both of these can be proved to be functional by either trying to spin the tires, or by pulling the E-brake. You'll quickly notice that the car is in control of YOU.
Press the DSC switch while the car is running, and you'll now have traction control removed from the game. You can spin the tires at will, and the car will not intervene. However, you if you pull the E-Brake during this mode, the car will regain control. As will it if you pull an aggressive trail-brake maneuver.
Now, with the car fully off, press the DSC button before turning the key and starting the car, and release shortly afterward. With this mode, all nannies are off, and you could easily spin the car if that was your wish through maneuvers. The tires will spin at will, and the brakes independent of each side of the car don't do what the DSC system tell them to. The system is fully disabled.
No matter what you believe and what you don't believe, this is how it goes according to the results I've seen.
**Edit**
If you think this is law-suit worthy, then how about an engine falling out? Or, lets take it further, and say that GM owes me money because they taught me how to spell "Gauge" wrong. All their cars spell it "Gage". I want money. LOL
The car behaves completely different from one mode to the next.
This is no hoax, and I don't know why Mazda in their infinite wisdom (did I mention my F-ing engine fell out of my car!!?!) chose to do it this way, but if you drive the car in each mode, it will become apparent to you, too.
Take the car out to a race track and try each mode. A couple have tried this, and discovered the car is faster on the "full off" mode compared with the other two. Why? I assume its because the "full off" mode provides ZERO computer intervention compared with the other two, and as such you can rotate the car around and get it to slide around a bit, which is beneficial on a closed-course race track.
To reiterate:
Leaving all systems nominal from KOEO (Key On Engine On), you have full traction control, as well as full dynamic stability control. Both of these can be proved to be functional by either trying to spin the tires, or by pulling the E-brake. You'll quickly notice that the car is in control of YOU.
Press the DSC switch while the car is running, and you'll now have traction control removed from the game. You can spin the tires at will, and the car will not intervene. However, you if you pull the E-Brake during this mode, the car will regain control. As will it if you pull an aggressive trail-brake maneuver.
Now, with the car fully off, press the DSC button before turning the key and starting the car, and release shortly afterward. With this mode, all nannies are off, and you could easily spin the car if that was your wish through maneuvers. The tires will spin at will, and the brakes independent of each side of the car don't do what the DSC system tell them to. The system is fully disabled.
No matter what you believe and what you don't believe, this is how it goes according to the results I've seen.
**Edit**
If you think this is law-suit worthy, then how about an engine falling out? Or, lets take it further, and say that GM owes me money because they taught me how to spell "Gauge" wrong. All their cars spell it "Gage". I want money. LOL
This is similar, but not exactly what some people have said, so don't bite my head off if you interpreted this before: I have also noticed, whether through steering, suspension, or somewhere inbetween, that turning DSC off allows more body roll. Steer the car quickly left and right, and while doing that hit the button. Feel the difference! My interpretation is with the systems in place there is less roll = tighter suspension. Have not tried this with the fully off yet.
My issue is that turning any combination of DSC and trac off allows more boost in low gears and keeps the ecu from taking over.... GREAT! If there is some kind of electronic stiffening with either or both systems on, I am a bit perplexed. I know that alot of people want to be able to slide the rear. But what if you want the stiffer ride with full power? I may be a bit confused, but to me this would be the best of both worlds.
Can anyone clear this up a bit for me?
My issue is that turning any combination of DSC and trac off allows more boost in low gears and keeps the ecu from taking over.... GREAT! If there is some kind of electronic stiffening with either or both systems on, I am a bit perplexed. I know that alot of people want to be able to slide the rear. But what if you want the stiffer ride with full power? I may be a bit confused, but to me this would be the best of both worlds.
Can anyone clear this up a bit for me?
This is a non electronic suspension. There is no possible way turning off the DSC will change the handling characteristics. Simple spring suspension. You need electromagnetic shocks to have any sort of change, which for 23K our cars are sadly missing that option.
This is a non electronic suspension. There is no possible way turning off the DSC will change the handling characteristics. Simple spring suspension. You need electromagnetic shocks to have any sort of change, which for 23K our cars are sadly missing that option.
I am not debating this, I am just wondering why it feels tighter (less body roll) when the DSC is turned on. Anyone have an explanation, or am I misinterpreting something? Help?
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