- :
- 2008 Mazda5 GT
This post is for you loosenut. Appreciate all your helpful insights/contributions and since you are the only other person here curious about the YS, figure I share give full disclosure. You can read their marketing materials for the highlights. Ill try and fill in the on the devil in the details tidbit.
The DSP (bound adjustment) is the entry line, followed by Premium Comp (bound and rebound adjustment), and Club Performance (bound and rebound adjustment +remote reservoir) being the top. AFAIK, only the DSP is spec for a Mazda5 but I bet they can build any of the other two for the Mazda5 -for a price.
Firstly, some background. Theres a LOT of internet rumors on low budget COs floating out there and the common perception is that they are all the same. Hey, they do sorta look alike, functions the same, and cost about the same. It is hard to filter out fact from fiction and I dont have the tools to measure technical details so my feedback is based solely on my experience (butt dyno) and opinions/observations. Im sure I do not have all my info straight or may be misled in other areas so take this review with a grain of salt. When in doubt, investigate further yourself.
These are made in Taiwan. The promo video leads me to believe their manufacturing is not shared with another brand (but still could be). Most any other CO brand likely use the same or similar manufacturing process so theres nothing revolutionary in the video. It helps to reaffirm that they are willing/able to share some snippets of their process. Its cool to watch, kinda like the How Its Made show but without the commentary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VAlwARIpmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koMDPAL6Sek
This is my first time using a true full coilover system type setup. Right off the bat my judgment will be flawed. I will say coilover system is just a fancy term for shock/strut and spring that sit on an adjustable sleeve AND is matched for a particular setup a kit. In the case of these DSP, the shock bodies offer 33 way rebound adjustment but Ive read this not be what you think. This adjustment, like all other adjustable shocks (including Koni Yellows) are not meant for comfort or sporty adjustments. They are meant to dial in to match whatever spring rate you are using it with. You want the compression rate to match the spring. But since we all have different butt dynos and tolerances, it could lead to a comfort vs sport affect. Also, the more adjustment range equals more margin of error/correction need to get a proper left <> right match. All this adjustability sounds cool but it is really not desirable, just marketing ploy or enables the manufacture to make a universal cartidige ZING! Apparently, the biggest problem with shocks (any shocks) is that it is very difficult to get to matching pairs valve to function the same (example: in reality left shock set to 10 clicks actually equals Right at 12 clicks). The adjustability is there to allow you to MATCH left and right shocks BUT this is moot if you dont put them on a shock dyno to measure each click. Sadly, these do NOT come with a shock dyno out the box (most cheap/entry dont) and is not a good indicator. I associate this to audio where a quality amp will come with a birth certificate that shows exactly what it is tested/rated to do.
I wanted to go full CO b/c it comes system b/c they do come as a complete kit and can be easily installed. This avoid the need to replace/upgrade individual components which can add up quickly (bump stops, boots, mounts, bushings, etc.). The caveat is that it takes a bit of effort to adjust (which is uninstalling, dismantling, and reinstalling EVERYTIME) to properly tune to your liking or it may just be out of your range of liking altogether.
The kit springs are 8km/mm for both front and rear. The manual suggest 16 clicks front and 10 clicks rear for comfortable street conditions. I rode the first 1,500 miles with 0 clicks front and 10 clicks rear. I wanted to test the theory that softer setting = softer ride, right? WRONG! When set to 0 clicks (softest), it rides terrible on anything but well paved roads; which it does ride extremely nice. But once you hit any ill-regularities, theres a bit of movement to absorb the impact. It is particularly bad going over large speed bump causes the front to crashes unless you go very slowly. This is b/c the fonts only offer 3.5 of piston travel!! Take the 3.5 to heart b/c this is all you have. I set them to 14 clicks front and kept the rears at 10. It rides much better but can still be a tad rough on deep pot holes, which I will discuss a bit more later.
Heighlights: [u/]
PROS: My gut feeling is that YellowSpeed appear to be a genuine small shop that is trying to make a name for themselves. The build, cut, fit/finish of the product looks and feels really good. The gauge and heft of the individual components (metals/finishing) are above my expectations (not that my expectations has any bearing for anyone else). Looking at the end link attachment, this tab CANNOT be any beefier. Gauge is almost as thick as my Curt hitch! The welds are very clean and everything is oversized or over specd IMHO. Little things like using silicon dust boots, more robust bushing design, pillow ball top mount, needle roller thrust bearings (top) + thrust sheets (bottom), and box shaped camber adjustment for max camber range. REARS: YS decided to use 3 Y barreled springs for the rear. This means a thicker coil spring but less coils. The YS springs fits into the OE spring perch, unlike BC Racing which uses 2.5 springs and comes with an insert (3/4 thick??) that converts the 3 perch to 2.5. Ultimately this means the YS can drop lower. If you want slam your ride (and still ride nice), this has your name on it.
CONS: On the flip side, Im guessing these are indeed universal cartridges that can be used on many applications. It also seems they are using some generic parts such as the shock mount, which lacks the alignment plate/notch that goes into the knuckle and they do not include the ABS line mount: specific attributes to the Model car. BC took the time to add these. Their solution for the brake line mount is an after though (I didnt use it), and the end link mounting tab is wrong, comes out at a 45deg with a round end instead of vertical with a flat end. I have come across some suspension tuning posts explaining how some shock body designs omit some of these clips/tabs -on purpose-, you decide. I dont buy it. The front needle roller bearings are FANTASTIC when new and for a track user but 1001% impractical for winters. They will freeze up bank on it. Unless you like to take it apart and clean or change it every year, these are NOT a practical long term solution. Not an issue for the Arizonian/Dan Diego-ian. Ill discuss more on how I work around this. Front shocks only offer 3.5 of travel before hitting bump. Take this too heart. There really isnt much travel to work with. On relatively smooth roads, this is MORE than enough and paired with the 8K kit springs is perfectly street able except when you hit a bad pothole. When you hit a deep bump (not hump) at slow speed OR a moderately deep pot hole at hwy speed (drag pulls car down so you have even less bump travel), it generates too much force for the spring/shock to transition with only 3.5 travel. The kit setup seem to strive for 50% bump / 50% droop. Rears off 4.5 which is more than enough for this application. I changed mine to ~60% bump/ 40% (every little bit helps!) droop and it rides nicer and more likely avoids crashing unless I hit the deepest of the deep potholes. More on this later.
Final Thoughts on buying YS:
It will be a very hard endeavor for them to make a name of themselves considering all the established/recognized names out there. All the misinformation and generalization doesnt help. Additionally, there are other (undercut) priced competitive alternatives out there as well. Coincidently, I couldnt find much, if any, technical detail on YellowSpeeds US site but stumbled across their EU site, which has MUCH details and product offering. I think this is due to their EU site being the sole sales distribution channel, unlike the US which goes through a distributor. Another poor rating is their lack of support. Tired emailing them 5 times to different accounts but only got a response once which only directly me to the distributor... I think this goes directly with their lack of presence in the US or lack of English?. Heck, I had to dig into their Europe site to get the parts diagram and other helpful info. Never looked to see if they have a Taiwan site (google translate?). On the flip side, Taiwan is one of the few places where therere LOTs of Mazda 5s!
I change out the roller bearings to eibach thrust sheets (also have swift sheets), swapped the 8 @ 450 lbs front springs to 9 @ 550 lbs eibach ERS springs. 9 springs has more travel than the shocks so need to preload it more but end result is a better ride to me. Left the rears alone. This is not something for soccer moms and dads but if you have sporty driving intentions, you will like these. If you want to slam, you will LOVE these. I would say the ride is taught, not stiff. Think of it as though you are riding in an M3/M5. Kids dont mind it (actually my son loves it) and SO likes the taught handling car so this works out well
. Ive detached the FSB (no bar up front), using MS3 RSB, and using 5mm spacers up front. My alignment is posted in another thread and so far the car tracks great and is very streetable (do have to look out for the big ones). THIS IS ONLY MY EXPERIENCE/OPINOIN. Your butt may differ.
Enough blabber. Money shots to come. I need some time to steal Phunkys pics to do a compare so you can see differences.
http://www.yellow-speed.com/index.php
http://www.yellowspeedeurope.com/
The DSP (bound adjustment) is the entry line, followed by Premium Comp (bound and rebound adjustment), and Club Performance (bound and rebound adjustment +remote reservoir) being the top. AFAIK, only the DSP is spec for a Mazda5 but I bet they can build any of the other two for the Mazda5 -for a price.
Firstly, some background. Theres a LOT of internet rumors on low budget COs floating out there and the common perception is that they are all the same. Hey, they do sorta look alike, functions the same, and cost about the same. It is hard to filter out fact from fiction and I dont have the tools to measure technical details so my feedback is based solely on my experience (butt dyno) and opinions/observations. Im sure I do not have all my info straight or may be misled in other areas so take this review with a grain of salt. When in doubt, investigate further yourself.
These are made in Taiwan. The promo video leads me to believe their manufacturing is not shared with another brand (but still could be). Most any other CO brand likely use the same or similar manufacturing process so theres nothing revolutionary in the video. It helps to reaffirm that they are willing/able to share some snippets of their process. Its cool to watch, kinda like the How Its Made show but without the commentary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VAlwARIpmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koMDPAL6Sek
This is my first time using a true full coilover system type setup. Right off the bat my judgment will be flawed. I will say coilover system is just a fancy term for shock/strut and spring that sit on an adjustable sleeve AND is matched for a particular setup a kit. In the case of these DSP, the shock bodies offer 33 way rebound adjustment but Ive read this not be what you think. This adjustment, like all other adjustable shocks (including Koni Yellows) are not meant for comfort or sporty adjustments. They are meant to dial in to match whatever spring rate you are using it with. You want the compression rate to match the spring. But since we all have different butt dynos and tolerances, it could lead to a comfort vs sport affect. Also, the more adjustment range equals more margin of error/correction need to get a proper left <> right match. All this adjustability sounds cool but it is really not desirable, just marketing ploy or enables the manufacture to make a universal cartidige ZING! Apparently, the biggest problem with shocks (any shocks) is that it is very difficult to get to matching pairs valve to function the same (example: in reality left shock set to 10 clicks actually equals Right at 12 clicks). The adjustability is there to allow you to MATCH left and right shocks BUT this is moot if you dont put them on a shock dyno to measure each click. Sadly, these do NOT come with a shock dyno out the box (most cheap/entry dont) and is not a good indicator. I associate this to audio where a quality amp will come with a birth certificate that shows exactly what it is tested/rated to do.
I wanted to go full CO b/c it comes system b/c they do come as a complete kit and can be easily installed. This avoid the need to replace/upgrade individual components which can add up quickly (bump stops, boots, mounts, bushings, etc.). The caveat is that it takes a bit of effort to adjust (which is uninstalling, dismantling, and reinstalling EVERYTIME) to properly tune to your liking or it may just be out of your range of liking altogether.
The kit springs are 8km/mm for both front and rear. The manual suggest 16 clicks front and 10 clicks rear for comfortable street conditions. I rode the first 1,500 miles with 0 clicks front and 10 clicks rear. I wanted to test the theory that softer setting = softer ride, right? WRONG! When set to 0 clicks (softest), it rides terrible on anything but well paved roads; which it does ride extremely nice. But once you hit any ill-regularities, theres a bit of movement to absorb the impact. It is particularly bad going over large speed bump causes the front to crashes unless you go very slowly. This is b/c the fonts only offer 3.5 of piston travel!! Take the 3.5 to heart b/c this is all you have. I set them to 14 clicks front and kept the rears at 10. It rides much better but can still be a tad rough on deep pot holes, which I will discuss a bit more later.
Heighlights: [u/]
PROS: My gut feeling is that YellowSpeed appear to be a genuine small shop that is trying to make a name for themselves. The build, cut, fit/finish of the product looks and feels really good. The gauge and heft of the individual components (metals/finishing) are above my expectations (not that my expectations has any bearing for anyone else). Looking at the end link attachment, this tab CANNOT be any beefier. Gauge is almost as thick as my Curt hitch! The welds are very clean and everything is oversized or over specd IMHO. Little things like using silicon dust boots, more robust bushing design, pillow ball top mount, needle roller thrust bearings (top) + thrust sheets (bottom), and box shaped camber adjustment for max camber range. REARS: YS decided to use 3 Y barreled springs for the rear. This means a thicker coil spring but less coils. The YS springs fits into the OE spring perch, unlike BC Racing which uses 2.5 springs and comes with an insert (3/4 thick??) that converts the 3 perch to 2.5. Ultimately this means the YS can drop lower. If you want slam your ride (and still ride nice), this has your name on it.
CONS: On the flip side, Im guessing these are indeed universal cartridges that can be used on many applications. It also seems they are using some generic parts such as the shock mount, which lacks the alignment plate/notch that goes into the knuckle and they do not include the ABS line mount: specific attributes to the Model car. BC took the time to add these. Their solution for the brake line mount is an after though (I didnt use it), and the end link mounting tab is wrong, comes out at a 45deg with a round end instead of vertical with a flat end. I have come across some suspension tuning posts explaining how some shock body designs omit some of these clips/tabs -on purpose-, you decide. I dont buy it. The front needle roller bearings are FANTASTIC when new and for a track user but 1001% impractical for winters. They will freeze up bank on it. Unless you like to take it apart and clean or change it every year, these are NOT a practical long term solution. Not an issue for the Arizonian/Dan Diego-ian. Ill discuss more on how I work around this. Front shocks only offer 3.5 of travel before hitting bump. Take this too heart. There really isnt much travel to work with. On relatively smooth roads, this is MORE than enough and paired with the 8K kit springs is perfectly street able except when you hit a bad pothole. When you hit a deep bump (not hump) at slow speed OR a moderately deep pot hole at hwy speed (drag pulls car down so you have even less bump travel), it generates too much force for the spring/shock to transition with only 3.5 travel. The kit setup seem to strive for 50% bump / 50% droop. Rears off 4.5 which is more than enough for this application. I changed mine to ~60% bump/ 40% (every little bit helps!) droop and it rides nicer and more likely avoids crashing unless I hit the deepest of the deep potholes. More on this later.
Final Thoughts on buying YS:
It will be a very hard endeavor for them to make a name of themselves considering all the established/recognized names out there. All the misinformation and generalization doesnt help. Additionally, there are other (undercut) priced competitive alternatives out there as well. Coincidently, I couldnt find much, if any, technical detail on YellowSpeeds US site but stumbled across their EU site, which has MUCH details and product offering. I think this is due to their EU site being the sole sales distribution channel, unlike the US which goes through a distributor. Another poor rating is their lack of support. Tired emailing them 5 times to different accounts but only got a response once which only directly me to the distributor... I think this goes directly with their lack of presence in the US or lack of English?. Heck, I had to dig into their Europe site to get the parts diagram and other helpful info. Never looked to see if they have a Taiwan site (google translate?). On the flip side, Taiwan is one of the few places where therere LOTs of Mazda 5s!
I change out the roller bearings to eibach thrust sheets (also have swift sheets), swapped the 8 @ 450 lbs front springs to 9 @ 550 lbs eibach ERS springs. 9 springs has more travel than the shocks so need to preload it more but end result is a better ride to me. Left the rears alone. This is not something for soccer moms and dads but if you have sporty driving intentions, you will like these. If you want to slam, you will LOVE these. I would say the ride is taught, not stiff. Think of it as though you are riding in an M3/M5. Kids dont mind it (actually my son loves it) and SO likes the taught handling car so this works out well
. Ive detached the FSB (no bar up front), using MS3 RSB, and using 5mm spacers up front. My alignment is posted in another thread and so far the car tracks great and is very streetable (do have to look out for the big ones). THIS IS ONLY MY EXPERIENCE/OPINOIN. Your butt may differ. Enough blabber. Money shots to come. I need some time to steal Phunkys pics to do a compare so you can see differences.
http://www.yellow-speed.com/index.php
http://www.yellowspeedeurope.com/
Tell us if you think the cost savings outweigh the negative aspects you have highlighted above. Do you feel you saved enough money to overcome the shortcomings of the system? Where did the Eibach springs come from? Did you use springs from an Eibach C/O, or are they straight springs that any one of us could source from Ebay/Craigslist? Lastly, what are the actual costs involved here, versus a Bilstein PSS10, Tein Basic, or a the like. I'm not ever going to C/O mine but these are questions I'm sure will get asked...
) since they have US presence and phone#. Upon receiving them, I was disappoint to find they are rubber (feels cheap) and too long. About those long boots, this leads me to believe BC 'may' have more suspension travel – very import if you want more of a DD setup! Someone needs to open theirs up and measure it and confirm this.
