lightweight wheels

falkofire

Member
I am curious as to what would be the benefits of lightweight wheels

besides the obvious of less overall weight...would they tend to cause the car to spin the tires easier..or jst what are they're overall benefits...

and what companys make good lightweight wheels..and what weight would be considered lightweight for a 17inch wheel
 
It is a matter or reducing unsprung weight, which is always good. Kind of hard to explain, but you always want to minimize the weight of the wheels (rim and tires). Often people go to a smaller rim for that reason alone.

As far as weight, I've heard a pound an inch is a good target. I believe Rotas are relatively light. SSR makes some very light ones as well. I'm sure there are a ton of them, I'm not much of a wheel guy myself (I like them, but don't know that much about them). Hopefully Rishi or someone of that nature can answer your thread and school us all.
 
Taken from the Temple of VTEC by Jerome Soh:

What is the physical relationship between an increase in wheel/tire = weight (rotating mass) and static weight?

It depends on how the weight of the wheel/tire is distributed.

Actually, there is a relationship between rotating and static weight. For the purposes of a car,

a=T(2/md+d/2I)

a = acceleration
T = torque driving the wheel
m = mass the wheel must "tow" from the center of rotation (COR)
d = diameter of tire
I = polar moment of inertia of wheel/tire combination
This was derived from first principles. The first term comes from F=ma where F = T/(d/2) --> d/2 is the moment arm at which the force from the ground on the tire acts. The 2nd term comes from a = alpha*(d/2) where alpha is angular acceleration. T=alpha*I.

(I) is not easy to calculate for complicated shapes like wheels... it is usually measured. The general form is (I) = sum (mi*di^2). (mi) is the "lump" of mass at a distance (di) from the COR. Break up your wheel into a zillion parts, measure the distance from the COR to each part, sum them all up using the above equation, and you get (I) :-). As an example, let's take a simple shape: for a uniformly distributed disk, (I) = md^2/8. Plugging into the above equation for (a), we get:

a=T(2/md+4/m_wd) where m_w is the weight of the wheel. Thus, we can see that for a uniformly distributed disk (like a hockey puck), the importance of rotational weight is 2x that of static weight (if the weight was static, it would contribute to the first term with the "2" factor, if it was rotational, it would contribute to the 2nd term with the "4" factor). However, a typical wheel/tire combination has most of it's weight at the outer edges, which increases (I). Thus, rotational weight is more than 2x the equivalent static weight.... probably near 3x or more (for really heavy tires with light wheels).

> things to rotate, you need a torque. Simply put, heavier wheels require
> more torque to get them rotating at the same speed as lighter wheels.
No and no. You seem to have the right idea, but please let me clarify. Wheels with a larger moment of inertia (I) require more torque to _accelerate_ at the same rate as a wheel with a smaller I. For a given horsepower output, both wheels will eventually reach the same terminal velocity, but the wheel with the larger I will take longer to reach it. It is possible for a heavier wheel to accelerate at a faster rate than a lighter wheel for a given torque. As an example, let's say we have 2 identical 15" wheels. Now let's add 1 lb to wheel #1 at the very edge of the wheel, and 2 lbs to wheel #2 near the center of the wheel. Even though wheel #2 is heavier, it has a smaller polar moment of inertia (I) and thus will accelerate at a faster rate for a given torque than wheel #1.

You can, of course, calculate the acceleration, then work your way backwards and simply define an "effective mass" as the proportionality constant between F and a. In this case you'd arrive at

M_effective = (M + 4I/d^2)
However, such a definition is neither physical, nor possibly even useful. The problem is that, as you stated,

>(I) is not easy to calculate for complicated shapes like wheels
so that, eventually, you'll have to take a guess at (I), like,

>.... probably near 3x
>or more (for really heavy tires with light wheels).
I think this might be helpful in an FAQ, provided that a warning is added that it is not quantitatively accurate. It would, however, provide a good conceptual insight for why adding 10 pounds of wheel is worse than driving around with a 10 pound sandbag.
 
Velox makes a bunch of light weight 17 inch wheels. They sell them at wheelmax.com . There forged wheels are 16.5lb for 17s (around $900 for wheels & tires) and they have a even lighter one weighing in at 11.5lb(around $1500 for wheels and tires)
 
well, centerline makes nice forged wheels....i was totally in love with them (butt) to me they were kinda spensive! something to the effect of $2200, dont know bout you (butt) that is a lil' much for me
they are 14.5 pounds for rim and tire when we went to look at them i was freaked out because i could lift the whole rim and tire with one hand
not only that, they were aluminum...i was really kinda scared that they would bend if i hit a bump or something the wrong way
i dont know what your style is or anything but i will tell ya the name of them in case you wanted to take a look...Centerline RPM
hope you find something that you like....later
 
The wheels that i plan to get pretty sood,
VOLK TE-37, to me personally the best wheels in the world!
 
Volk Racing
Gram lights
SSR
Work
Enkei High performance: Not that s*** you see mostly. REal s***.
Advan

Then every other manufacturer pretty much has a lightweight wheel also. But hard to find good fitment for the protege5.

I have the LE37T's since august last year and most likely will be changing them up to Gram light 57F Pro.

Later, Rishie
 
I have 17" Centerline RPMs weighing in at 13.5 lbs!! Well at least I think I have some, as long as the lug pattern in the same as my old car a 91 Talon. I really hope they fit, I will check tomorrow.
 
They will fit with 205/40/17. It's a +42 offset most likely. Those are good wheels too. They are forged. Not sure how strong they are though. Forged wheels still bend. lol. That's really light. They must have some thin ass spokes.

rishie
 
Little Beavis said:
It is a matter or reducing unsprung weight, which is always good. Kind of hard to explain, but you always want to minimize the weight of the wheels (rim and tires). Often people go to a smaller rim for that reason alone.

As far as weight, I've heard a pound an inch is a good target. I believe Rotas are relatively light. SSR makes some very light ones as well. I'm sure there are a ton of them, I'm not much of a wheel guy myself (I like them, but don't know that much about them). Hopefully Rishi or someone of that nature can answer your thread and school us all.

not intirely true i am running tenzo r poke 10 18's on another car of mine and they weigh i believe is 11 or 13 pounds by your method it should weigh 18.
 
the lighter the rim the more you gonna pay for it of course, example i believe spoon rims at 15" that way its either 5.6 pounds or 4.6 pounds each. could run you around 500 - 800 per rim depending on were you buy it. unless you get some cheap spoon rip off that weigh a few pounds more, i believe rota makes some.
 
The Volk Gram light wheels weight 17.5lbs each. That seems pretty heavy for there price. They should call them "490 Gram Lights"
 
Ryan said:


not intirely true i am running tenzo r poke 10 18's on another car of mine and they weigh i believe is 11 or 13 pounds by your method it should weigh 18.

LOL, he didn't say it was written in stone...he just said that 1lb per inch was a good weight to shoot for. An 18lb 18" rim would be a pretty good rim to look for, considering that most 18's weigh 25lbs.
 
ChopstickHero said:
> things to rotate, you need a torque. Simply put, heavier wheels require
> more torque to get them rotating at the same speed as lighter wheels.

No and no. You seem to have the right idea, but please let me clarify. Wheels with a larger moment of inertia (I) require more torque to _accelerate_ at the same rate as a wheel with a smaller I. For a given horsepower output, both wheels will eventually reach the same terminal velocity, but the wheel with the larger I will take longer to reach it.


"No and no"??

To me it looks like you start by saying he's wrong, and then just re-explain what he already wrote in tecnical terms.

Although, I would argue one of your points....where you say:

"For a given horsepower output, both wheels will eventually reach the same terminal velocity, but the wheel with the larger I will take longer to reach it."

Obviously this has it's limitations. If you have say, a 100hp car, and wheel A had an "I" 1/10th (yes, i realize this is a big exaggeration) of the "I" of wheel B, I think it would be safe to say that wheel B would never reach the speed on a 100hp car that wheel A would.
 
There are different models of GramLights. Some are cast, some are forged. You must've seen weights for the cast version.

Rishi .. I can't believe you forgot these brands as well:
Regamaster (makes the Spoon wheels)
Weds Sport (come in perfect sizes for the Protege)
 
OZ racing Superleggeras are pretty light too.

I remember seeing one guy on the board with them, don't remember who.

But they have a version that's 17x7 with a +45 offset (I think that should work on ours, correct me if I am wrong) that weighs in at 15.4 lbs.
 
Well now, we've seen a ton of offerings here. . .
My point was exactly that. . . you can't really call it lightweight if it is more than 1 pound per inch, and if you want to pay for exotic materials or designs, I'm sure get far lighter.

I think the best bet is to find the one that looks best to you. If you find yourself in a situation trying to decide between two, then worry about the weight. Or if you're really bored, start trying to calculate the moment of inertia (maybe find an engineering college student with too much time on his/her hands).

Anyway, best of luck and let us know what you decide! Happy shopping!
 
ARD MP5 said:
Volk Racing
Gram lights
SSR
Work
Enkei High performance: Not that s*** you see mostly. REal s***.
Advan

Then every other manufacturer pretty much has a lightweight wheel also. But hard to find good fitment for the protege5.

I have the LE37T's since august last year and most likely will be changing them up to Gram light 57F Pro.

Later, Rishie

Hey Rishie,

How much for 17x7.5 +48offset bronze TE37's? And how much more would LE37' be? (I love the polished lip on the LE's)

Thanks,

Jay
 
OZ Racing Superlegga and Crono Evolution will both fit in 17x7 +45 mm. And they are both light. Like 15 lbs for 17x7. Just like CanMP5 said. Those are about the only good (light) wheels OZ sells to the general public at the moment.
 
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