i got second in ds again....(out of three) which is not that bad. i lost to .4sec. anyway what techniques are other people using/ such as left foot braking. another thing i noticed is that the abs is really touchy in my car. mabee i should remove the abs fuse next time??? any suggestions to lower my times would be greatly apprietiated.(second)
last weekend autox
- Thread starter beavis
- Start date
DistantTea
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed... of DOOM!
My personal advice that may or may not have any bearing on reality.
Don't learn to left foot brake. Don't bother learning special techniques and don't try up/down/up/down/left/right/left/right/b/a/start in the beginning.
Learn to drive smoothly, learn to look ahead, study course reading and get the fundamentals of race dynamics under your belt. Then start playing with your left foot, hand brake, learn to drive upside down...whatever. But get fast regionally at least before you try something that can turn your handling world upside down like LFB.
Oh and by not pulling your ABS fuse you get forced to learn to brake in a straight line and use decreasing pressure trail braking... since anything else will set it off like fire.
Don't learn to left foot brake. Don't bother learning special techniques and don't try up/down/up/down/left/right/left/right/b/a/start in the beginning.
Learn to drive smoothly, learn to look ahead, study course reading and get the fundamentals of race dynamics under your belt. Then start playing with your left foot, hand brake, learn to drive upside down...whatever. But get fast regionally at least before you try something that can turn your handling world upside down like LFB.
Oh and by not pulling your ABS fuse you get forced to learn to brake in a straight line and use decreasing pressure trail braking... since anything else will set it off like fire.
I disagree - if you want to eventually learn to left brake start now. The longer you wait the harder it will be to train your feet to do something different. Also the faster you get the less inclined you'll be to try something that will inevitably make you slower for a few months.
Plus getting this car to rotate with LFB is way fun
The biggests time savers are always the basics. Look further ahead, work on getting tighter in to slalom and apex cones, be smooth (the MSP will force that last one on you - if you're going fast and are trying to thrash the car all over the place it will be happy to spin you around a few times in retaliation), look ahead some more...
Disabling ABS is illegal in stock (you probably won't be called on it regionally, but if someone figures out what you've done you may forever lose any respect they have for you) - take some time to adjust to it kicking in and you will learn to make it an advantage.
Plus getting this car to rotate with LFB is way fun
The biggests time savers are always the basics. Look further ahead, work on getting tighter in to slalom and apex cones, be smooth (the MSP will force that last one on you - if you're going fast and are trying to thrash the car all over the place it will be happy to spin you around a few times in retaliation), look ahead some more...
Disabling ABS is illegal in stock (you probably won't be called on it regionally, but if someone figures out what you've done you may forever lose any respect they have for you) - take some time to adjust to it kicking in and you will learn to make it an advantage.
scapamouche
Member
There is no real need to pull the ABS fuse, anyway. In all honesty, the MSP has one of the LEAST intrusive ABS systems I've ever seen... It actually HELPS me, rather than cause problems...
Vanimaniac
Member
DistantTea said:
What's wrong with getting 30 extra lives? This way if you mess up you get 29 more tries! (crazy)
(hump) I didn't know that pulling the abs fuse pulled you from stock class... Good to know in a pinch. Just thaught by pulling it it would make it easier to rotate. it seems that any lfb i do just makes the brakes go haywire... Tried it the first time a few weeks ago at the first autox of the season and it was like almost into the turn and my brake pedal was like pushing on a concrete block... (boom08) anyway i have another two weeks to decide what to do.
AUTOX RULES!!!!!(bow) (cheers) (cheers) (humpleg)
AUTOX RULES!!!!!(bow) (cheers) (cheers) (humpleg)
LFB is really most useful in eliminating push in corners you're already into (hopefully intentionally - but its been useful when my brain decides to malfuntion out on course also). A few things to remember; don't lift off the gas - If you lift off the gas & LFB at the same time you stand a good chance of rotating the car too much, & doing this (LFB - not spinning; you should already know that's a bad idea) too much/often will cost you time. I only really use it at tight corners at the end of long straights/fast slaloms/very open sweepers, it makes it so you have to brake less exiting the fast bit, or so you can correct if you haven't braked enough going in.
It can also be useful just as a replacement for using your right foot - less movement of limbs in the car - but if you do this you almost certainly WILL start braking too much for at least 2-3 events. Having a foot hovering over the brake is very tempting. I don't know anyone who does this that isn't or hasn't at one time been of the tendency to panic and use that conveniently placed foot to brake when they really shouldn't have.
When you get it right you'll know
Just try to remember to get on the gas like hell once the car's around (gotta love FWD - just about everything can be solved by adding gas) and don't sit there with a stupid grin on your face thinking "Wheee! that was fun!" Which is what I sometimes do.
It can also be useful just as a replacement for using your right foot - less movement of limbs in the car - but if you do this you almost certainly WILL start braking too much for at least 2-3 events. Having a foot hovering over the brake is very tempting. I don't know anyone who does this that isn't or hasn't at one time been of the tendency to panic and use that conveniently placed foot to brake when they really shouldn't have.
When you get it right you'll know
Just try to remember to get on the gas like hell once the car's around (gotta love FWD - just about everything can be solved by adding gas) and don't sit there with a stupid grin on your face thinking "Wheee! that was fun!" Which is what I sometimes do.
DistantTea
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed... of DOOM!
If you are braking anywhere at or after the apex you are going too slow. LFB is for corner entry only for autocross. For road racing it gives a consistancy and safety level for corner correction, but corner correction in solo II means something went wrong and your exit is blown.
Thats why I try to steer people away from learning it. LFB becomes a crutch... something they know they can use mid corner when they come in too hot and need to correct. Its all fine and dandy but the fastest exit from the corner is the fastest time and if you start accelerating even 10 feet later than guy A guy A is going to reach that next corner before you.
Thats why I try to steer people away from learning it. LFB becomes a crutch... something they know they can use mid corner when they come in too hot and need to correct. Its all fine and dandy but the fastest exit from the corner is the fastest time and if you start accelerating even 10 feet later than guy A guy A is going to reach that next corner before you.
mazdaowner123
Member
Tom you're a dork (lol)
Contra owns you.
~brian
Contra owns you.
~brian
scapamouche
Member
Funny, I tend to agree with Tom. 
I see there being two SEPARATE techniques being discussed here: LFB and TRAILBRAKING. I do the forst but not the latter.
I use my left foot for the brake so that I don't lose the time it takes to move my foot over from gas to brake and back. I generally do NOT use both at the same time to help rotation.
Trailbraking is the process of using the brake lightly in a turn, while still on the gas, to shift weight to the front of the car and therefore help the rear rotate more. Like I said above, I generally do not trail brake. I prefer to get the car down to speed before I turn, and then use the full traction of the tires to turn and accelerate, rather than take some of that grip to slow down more.
Leight is right about the overbraking: It took me quite a while to get the hang of LFB without overdoing it... Once you get it, the speed of response is MUCH quicker... I get messed up now at autox if I DON'T get that foot over...
I see there being two SEPARATE techniques being discussed here: LFB and TRAILBRAKING. I do the forst but not the latter.
I use my left foot for the brake so that I don't lose the time it takes to move my foot over from gas to brake and back. I generally do NOT use both at the same time to help rotation.
Trailbraking is the process of using the brake lightly in a turn, while still on the gas, to shift weight to the front of the car and therefore help the rear rotate more. Like I said above, I generally do not trail brake. I prefer to get the car down to speed before I turn, and then use the full traction of the tires to turn and accelerate, rather than take some of that grip to slow down more.
Leight is right about the overbraking: It took me quite a while to get the hang of LFB without overdoing it... Once you get it, the speed of response is MUCH quicker... I get messed up now at autox if I DON'T get that foot over...
rustychops41
Member
- :
- 2007 Mazda 3s HB
Andy, I can tell you this much. Bradford uses left-foot braking. Need I say more?
DistantTea
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed... of DOOM!
There is a survey done every few years with the National Solo II champs. Its split nearly perfect 50/50 on who LFB and who RFB, but its nearly unanamous that nobody started their autocross endevors LFB'ing. Fundamentals first, refinement next.
Correct me if I'm wrong - but I thought tailbraking was leaving your foot on the brake as you enter a corner. As far as anyone I've spoken to is concerned LFB entails too things; rotation & using your left foot instead of the right to brake(as scapamouche said - less time wasted moving feet)
Of course - I should add I'm a rally nut - I may be using that definition for LFB and just confusing everyone involved.
Of course - I should add I'm a rally nut - I may be using that definition for LFB and just confusing everyone involved.
mazdaowner123
Member
I thought the same thing about trailbraking. And I too am a rally nut, so maybe we're thinking of LFB in a different way. (shrug)Leigh said:
~brian
LFB really only means that you are using the left foot to operate the service brakes instead of the right. Trailbraking can be performed using either foot to control the brake.
In rallying, LFB is used, in conjunction with the right foot on the throttle, to change the corning attitude of the car. This is most often used with front wheel drive cars to allow the car to be rotated, perhaps over-rotated, to allow an earlier application of the power for the corner exit. Performed properly, the different variations of this will allow a higher speed at the end of the follwoing straight.
In neither case is this easy to execute.
In rallying, LFB is used, in conjunction with the right foot on the throttle, to change the corning attitude of the car. This is most often used with front wheel drive cars to allow the car to be rotated, perhaps over-rotated, to allow an earlier application of the power for the corner exit. Performed properly, the different variations of this will allow a higher speed at the end of the follwoing straight.
In neither case is this easy to execute.
scapamouche
Member
Leigh: I have the same concept of LFB vs TB. Like I said, I only use the left foot to save reaction time. If I didn't have my racing harness, I might not be able to use the left foot like that because I'd be bracing myself.
Interestingly, I used LFB and TB in my first autox car (a 1992 Sentra SE-R) but I didn;t use the left foot at all in my 2nd car (a 2000 Celica GT-S.) The reason: I couldn't get my foot to the other side of the steering column because of how tight the car was for me... No head room, so I had to sit REALLY close with the seat reclined, so my knees were jammed up under the wheel, therefore no LFB... Now that I have the MSP, space is not an issue, and the LFB returns, but i don't TB...
Interestingly, I used LFB and TB in my first autox car (a 1992 Sentra SE-R) but I didn;t use the left foot at all in my 2nd car (a 2000 Celica GT-S.) The reason: I couldn't get my foot to the other side of the steering column because of how tight the car was for me... No head room, so I had to sit REALLY close with the seat reclined, so my knees were jammed up under the wheel, therefore no LFB... Now that I have the MSP, space is not an issue, and the LFB returns, but i don't TB...
I dunno - spend thirty minutes on a skidpad. The rotation bit isn't so hard to do IMO - its just knowing how much brake to use. In an autox you're not really talking rally-eske slides anyway, just a very small twitch of oversteer to allow you to dive in/out of a corner a bit faster.... not that I wouldn't just love to go find some dirt to try that in
Ah! someone else who suffered the wonders of the new Celica cockpit. I had an 01 GT for awhile, it started having various problems a few months before I started autoxing and once I had to try and get to all the controls during that... it finally got the point I wanted to drive it off a cliff (its an annoying thing to explain why I got rid of it since its supposed to be The Car To Have in GS). One of the reasons I have an MSP now.
So nice to have room to get to everything.
A harness does make using the left foot 200% easier, especially since we don't really have seats that hold you in very well.
