K&N Flat Panel Air Filter Helps

[Tex]

I got my K&N air filter the other day, (had to order it off the 'Net), the one that just drops in the stock air box, and have been driving around with it installed for two days now. It definitely helps low speed operation. Off idle performance is noticeably better, with less throttle required to start from a standing stop, and better throttle response throughout the lower RPM band. The improvement is most noticeable when accelerating under partial throttle conditions, up to about half throttle.

But it also seems to improve hard acceleration performance a bit. The turbo seems to hit harder when it comes on, and power delivery is smoother all the way to redline.

My only other mods are a Joe P FPR kit, and removing the back-of-the-hood weatherstripping.

The filter was 42.00 shipped from Auto Barn, but I'm sure there are numerous web places to get them.

Well worth the money, in my opinion.

 

[KyRaceFan]

Do you have a boost gauge? If so, did you notice an increase in PSI? Stock airboxs, filters, and designed to be very restrictive, so you notice most of the xtra pull because you probably increased your psi 1 or 2. Putting on a K&N cone, and better turbo inlet piping, which if you look, starts wide, but curves around to about an inch in diameter, will safely increase boost, because youre getting better airflow, which raises a question
JOE, youve got the MBC, and FPR kits for sale, but have you designed, or implemented a bigger turbo inlet? After looking at the stock on one MSP's, adding a bigger, less restrictive will help alot. Think you could design one?

 

[t3ase]

Uh, an intake will not increase the PSI his turbo is set to run it, it will just help the turbo run more effeciently.

 

[KyRaceFan]

less restrictions in airflow will up the boost.

 

[mazdaspeed Mike]

I smell a pissin contest a brewin

 

[Tex]

What have I done??

 

[MP3-Owner]

I have this K&N filter for sale if anyone wants it. I upgraded and only used the K&N for 2 weeks, so it is practicly brand new. Best offer takes it.

 

[Kenetix]

Okay, listen up you pansy asses. An airfilter has got NOTHING to do with boost. Now before you go putting in your 2 cents worth, this is the way s*** works.

A turbo's pump is driven by exhaust gas energy. As exhaust gas leaves the combustion chamber and goes out the exhaust manifold, it is fed into a turbo. The turbo has two separate chambers.
The exhaust gas flows into one chamber, causing a turbine to spin, then exits the chamber and out the exhaust system. The spinning turbine is connected by a shaft to the second chamber, where is spins a compressor wheel that pumps intake air through the intake tract and into the combustion chamber. Because turbos rely on exhaust gas energy to make boost, they can sometimes suffer from "boost lag" as the turbo waits for exhaust pressure to build before pressure and power is produced. However, with proper sizing of the turbo and exhaust plumbing, "boost lag" can be avoided.

Now, an intake is a on the other side of the whole issue. The only thing, any kind of intake is going to change, is possibly less turbo-lag and better power in the high rpm band. It has NOTHING to do with exhaust gases, which are what power the turbocharger, unless you're gonna go all crazy on me and say more intake air equals more exhaust gas, which just aint true.

 

[KyRaceFan]

Im fully aware of how a turbo works, but for those that arent, thats a very good description.
What i am saying is that, the minumum boost levels your turbo runs at can be increased/decreased based on restrictions in airflow.
I watched my friends turbo II rx7 go from 8 to 9psi by taking his filter out.
If i hadnt seen this real world application, nothing else changed, then i would not have brought it up.

 

[t3ase]

Okay, listen up you pansy asses. An airfilter has got NOTHING to do with boost. Now before you go putting in your 2 cents worth, this is the way s*** works.

A turbo's pump is driven by exhaust gas energy. As exhaust gas leaves the combustion chamber and goes out the exhaust manifold, it is fed into a turbo. The turbo has two separate chambers.
The exhaust gas flows into one chamber, causing a turbine to spin, then exits the chamber and out the exhaust system. The spinning turbine is connected by a shaft to the second chamber, where is spins a compressor wheel that pumps intake air through the intake tract and into the combustion chamber. Because turbos rely on exhaust gas energy to make boost, they can sometimes suffer from "boost lag" as the turbo waits for exhaust pressure to build before pressure and power is produced. However, with proper sizing of the turbo and exhaust plumbing, "boost lag" can be avoided.

Now, an intake is a on the other side of the whole issue. The only thing, any kind of intake is going to change, is possibly less turbo-lag and better power in the high rpm band. It has NOTHING to do with exhaust gases, which are what power the turbocharger, unless you're gonna go all crazy on me and say more intake air equals more exhaust gas, which just aint true.

THank you. =)

 

[MSP Pro]

At the risk of getting covered in sh_t, I'll put in my 2 cents worth: By adding the lower restriction K&N air filter, you have reduced the pressure loss from the outside air pressure to the compressor inlet. Therefore, the compressor can achieve maximum boost the system is set to at a lower pressure ratio. This means the compressor has heated the intake air less and therefore your intake charge at the cylinder is lower temperature, as well. All of this helps make more power in the cylinder and reduces possible detonation through lower charge temps.

Get a copy of Corky Bell's book Maximum Boost. He explains turbo systems in an interesting way.

 

[unwrittenLaw]

I got my K&N air filter the other day, (had to order it off the 'Net), the one that just drops in the stock air box, and have been driving around with it installed for two days now. It definitely helps low speed operation. Off idle performance is noticeably better, with less throttle required to start from a standing stop, and better throttle response throughout the lower RPM band. The improvement is most noticeable when accelerating under partial throttle conditions, up to about half throttle.

But it also seems to improve hard acceleration performance a bit. The turbo seems to hit harder when it comes on, and power delivery is smoother all the way to redline.

My only other mods are a Joe P FPR kit, and removing the back-of-the-hood weatherstripping.

The filter was 42.00 shipped from Auto Barn, but I'm sure there are numerous web places to get them.

Well worth the money, in my opinion.

Do you know the part number?

 

[jacobcartmill]

Okay, listen up you pansy asses. An airfilter has got NOTHING to do with boost. Now before you go putting in your 2 cents worth, this is the way s*** works.

Now, an intake is a on the other side of the whole issue. The only thing, any kind of intake is going to change, is possibly less turbo-lag and better power in the high rpm band. It has NOTHING to do with exhaust gases, which are what power the turbocharger, unless you're gonna go all crazy on me and say more intake air equals more exhaust gas, which just aint true.

intake restriction can work the same way as exhaust restriction when you have a turbo man... if there is a huge restriction on one side, what you do to the other side isnt going to matter. say you had stock exaust (which is obviously a restriction) then messing around with the intake wont do much.
so if you have a FREE exhaust, changes made to the intake will have a decent affect on performance.

example: lets say you have the stock airbox, stock panel filter, and stock bendy-ass plastic piping (that plastic piping is also like 2.5 feet long isnt it?)...
lets ALSO say you're running open downpipe or a very open exhaust like you happen to have on your car. go take off that stock airbox and turbo inlet duct and slap a nice flowing cone filter right on the end of your compressor housing. tell me what happens as a result of you replacing that stock airbox with just a cone filter on the compressor housing while already having a freeflowing exhaust... your boost will definitely rise.
(EDIT:correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought msproteges had MAP sensors, if they have a massairflow meter (or both), just put the AFM and cone filter as close to the compressor as possible with as few bends as possible)

any kind of intake is going to change, ... and better power in the high rpm band.

you said it yourself man. put your stock intake back on (since you have an open exhaust) and check out your boost.

 

[KyRaceFan]

Re: Re: K&N Flat Panel Air Filter Helps

Do you know the part number?

you mention K&N cone in your mods list.. you dont need a panel filter!

 

[adamlewis]

Kenetix

Youre obviously an idiot with too much money on his/her hands.
Having a restriction on the intake side of a turbo will limit the amount of boost you make. If you dont believe me, go try this little experiment. Take a sheet of plastic, cut a few round holes in it ( about quarter sized ) then put it over your filter inside the airbox. Proceed to romp on your car and tell me the results.

Its just common sense. If you have a restriction, youre not going to be able to draw in as much air, and consequently youre not going to be able to make as much boost. Getting rid of the whole stock TID, and making your own with large diameter piping and a freeflowing filter WILL raise your boost ( given that you already have the exhaust able to flow the amount required for higher boost levels ).

Please take the effort to educate yourself from now on BEFORE making any lame ass attempts at schooling people

 

[jacobcartmill]

THank you. =)

thank you for what? false info about boost and airflow restrictions?

 

[adamlewis]

unless you're gonna go all crazy on me and say more intake air equals more exhaust gas, which just aint true.

What...The...****...


So lemme see here, more air going into the engine doesnt equal more air leaving the engine?
However much you paid for school was too much Ken. I suggest promptly getting a refund and investing the money into something thats actually worthwhile.

 

[adamlewis]

At the risk of getting covered in sh_t, I'll put in my 2 cents worth: By adding the lower restriction K&N air filter, you have reduced the pressure loss from the outside air pressure to the compressor inlet. Therefore, the compressor can achieve maximum boost the system is set to at a lower pressure ratio. This means the compressor has heated the intake air less and therefore your intake charge at the cylinder is lower temperature, as well. All of this helps make more power in the cylinder and reduces possible detonation through lower charge temps.

Get a copy of Corky Bell's book Maximum Boost. He explains turbo systems in an interesting way.

Thats an old and outdated book but its still a very good primer. If you do pick it up, just be sure not to take everything to heart.

 

[unwrittenLaw]

Re: Re: Re: K&N Flat Panel Air Filter Helps

you mention K&N cone in your mods list.. you dont need a panel filter!

Umm ok...thanks for telling me what i dont need...

Maybe I want to try the panel filter since the the location of the cone filter is sucking in hot air..

 

[KyRaceFan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: K&N Flat Panel Air Filter Helps

Umm ok...thanks for telling me what i dont need...

Maybe I want to try the panel filter since the the location of the cone filter is sucking in hot air..

Its easy enough to goto home depot and fabricate a working heat shield, ive seen it done before, ask JacobCartmill.
And i was just wondering why you were inquiring about a panel, when you already have a cone.