It's Time For A Rebellion, Better Yet A Revolution. My Guns Will Be Loaded!

InlineTwin said:
I don't want to come across as the disagreeing sort, but I will throw this out there anyway. I don't think the dealership pays for the warranty work; they bill Mazda Corporate (Ford?) directly. If it were otherwise I think all dealerships would go out of business quickly!

So in that regard I am not surprised that they are willing to replace the turbo; they get a little extra work. Everyone has a budget, and if you can pay your tech (who would otherwise be standing around) with someone elses money, why not?

The dealerships must pay for the work and submit it to Mazda Corp with the partst that were replace. It is Mazda Corps. decision if they pay the dealer back for the work. That is why some dealers are hesitant to do some warranty work. If Mazda Corp. feels the work should not have been completed under warranty the dealer is out the money to fix the problem.
 
^^ they are also hesitant because they don't get paid much to do warranty labor. They'd make about twice as much if they were doing out-of-warranty work.
 
So, they called me and told me my turbo was in. I left my car at the shop on the 26th they called friday and told me they broke a part on the downpipe and it is on national backorder so they have to keep my car for 2 weeks! I got the minivan loaner for a while, oh boy. The tech told me that the car was smoking from a bad seal in the turbo, Ok that's what I told them from reading this thread. He also said the only fix was a new turbo.
 
I have a 06 MS6 with about 10 000KM on it and Stock, mine is smoking like a steamboat within 2 to 3 minutes of idling.

The first time a brought it to the dealership for this problem I asked to send the technician out to see it from is own eyes the smoking problem. I told him about the turbo seals problem that I read about on this forum and the video of the smoking MS6 on youtube and he didn’t know anything about the seal problem. The next day when I went to pick up my car they told me that their was no smoking when they did the road test so now I have to go to the dealership every 2 weeks for a total of 4 times to verify the oil consumption level. Last week I went for the first checkup and as you would expect no changes. Now When I am in traffic or long light I get smoke coming out of the pipes and the bad smell coming inside the car. Next week I will go for the second checkup but I will be prepared. I took about 15 minutes of film showing the car smoking and I’ll even let the car run and smoke so that everyone employee and customers can see this.
 
Yes at idle. I have not notice any smoking when driving under normal condition expet slightly on hard acceleration but I think this is normal
 
my car doesn't use oil at all and drive hard all the time, if you see smoke coming out during hard accecleration its just wasted fuel that wasn't burned escaping , pefectly normal. for you guys that are burining oil sorry to here that! i use royal purple maybe that helps
 
Paid an last minute visit to the dealer this afternoon to show them the video and they didnt even wanted to look at them. I have to see trought the oil consumption program so I am going to spend alot of time on the road, I have to two time 1000KM and have them check it. Here's a good one that is going to piss you all off. The manager of the service department actually told me himsel "If it's not an oil issue there is nothing I can do... Mazda made it this way and your car is fine" Can you belive this. So I am going to do my 2000KM and trust me I will have them do something, a car smoking at idle has defenitely something wrong
 
My exhaust is all stock. No smoke idle. If Mazda made the car like that, then they would all do it. Something else is wrong.
 
Okay, so I have the same f@%$ing problem. My Car does the same crap on idle. I have ATP downpipe, AEM intake, and also up'd my boost in the past. Idk if its mazda or whoever, and i dont really care either. All i know is that this week im gonna put my car back to stock and im gonna go to the dealership. Im gonna tell them "Dont take my car on any road tests, i didnt buy it for you to drive, i bought it for myself and I will be watching my miles/gas/trip A and trip B!" They should not drive our cars as road tests, f#$k them, they got those computers let them do the work, ahahah. Ill let you guys all know what goes on, if they dont take my car, then hey... We know not to be dicks, but yeah i got that powerful mouth that will talk s***, as does everyone in my family. Ill let you all know what happens. Mine puffs up everyday now, so thats a probelm
 
Prison said:
Okay, so I have the same f@%$ing problem. My Car does the same crap on idle. I have ATP downpipe, AEM intake, and also up'd my boost in the past. Idk if its mazda or whoever, and i dont really care either. All i know is that this week im gonna put my car back to stock and im gonna go to the dealership. Im gonna tell them "Dont take my car on any road tests, i didnt buy it for you to drive, i bought it for myself and I will be watching my miles/gas/trip A and trip B!" They should not drive our cars as road tests, f#$k them, they got those computers let them do the work, ahahah. Ill let you guys all know what goes on, if they dont take my car, then hey... We know not to be dicks, but yeah i got that powerful mouth that will talk s***, as does everyone in my family. Ill let you all know what happens. Mine puffs up everyday now, so thats a probelm

if i was your service advisor i would remove a bolt here or there.....
 
wannabe said:
if i was your service advisor i would remove a bolt here or there.....


Hahaha, that would suck, but then my car would be screwd so i'd just sue and get the problem fixed for free, And you wouldnt have a job no more
 
Yeah, I can see this as a big quality problem, or maybe not... My MS6 is stock and doesn't blow smoke so far at 5k miles. If it started to smoke tomorrow, I'd be all kinds of pissed and take it in and insist on repair. We've seen two guys in this thread get new turbos, and quite a few bitchin about it without follow up threads saying whether their problem was fixed or even if they'd been to the dealer at all yet. We've also seen some who say that the dealer's telling them it's normal, and one who seems to be made to jump through hoops verifying oil consumption, maybe in a buildup to be told "Sorry, there's nothing we can do, eh?" So we see the scattering of good and not so good treatment from dealers, which is pretty normal. The far extremes of dealerships actually have to be discarded in terms of figuring out if there's a problem Mazda can and should fix. Finally, (to me) the key to understanding the entire problem is the MS3 owner who reinstalled his stock pipes and the smoking actually went away.

On the one hand, if I were Mazda I'd tell you it should be expected, and recommend turbo upgrade in conjunction with exhaust mods. On the other hand, perhaps if I were Mazda I'd have done a right big exhaust in the first place and spec'd out a turbo with seals that matched. But, that wouldn't allow me to manufacture a car like the MS6/MS3 at the price, then would it? ...and guys would toss on an even bigger set of pipes and I might be facing the same problem anyhow. Of course, if I had three hands, there's the part where it sucks that you can't do basic warranty-safe mods and get more power without looking like a mosquito sprayer, and that hurts Mazdaspeed's rep from a tuning perspective. I would see this as most important, but it would be a tough sell to increase the performance of a part in case someone decided to modify another part of the system.

Bottom line is this: You mod your car, you go outside engineering specs. Exhaust mods on a MS6/MS3 will reduce the turbo seal pressure too far out of spec, and cause oil bypass and smoke. This may be surprising to some, but others, having done research have offered that it shouldn't be. IMO, unless you have a stock exhaust and your turbo leaks, Mazda shouldn't be responsible. If you installed a bigger turbo and blew up your motor because you didn't control the extra boost you wouldn't expect Mazda to cough up a new one. Technically, this is the same thing, and for that reason I have to disagree with the intent of the thread. I don't believe Mazda's seal design is responsible, at least not at this point in time.

Argue that an Evo or Subie wouldn't have this problem, and I say these aren't either one, they're Mazdas. Mod within limits or mod the limiting factors to compensate.

Not knocking the desire to mod, I have a modded 74 Vette. But with every mod I've done, I've taken into consideration the consequences of each, and built or beefed accordingly. I also base my decisions on lessons learned by Vette owners over the years. We're now learning those consequences, and how to base mod decisions in the MS6/MS3.
 
3+5 said:
Yeah, I can see this as a big quality problem, or maybe not... My MS6 is stock and doesn't blow smoke so far at 5k miles. If it started to smoke tomorrow, I'd be all kinds of pissed and take it in and insist on repair. We've seen two guys in this thread get new turbos, and quite a few bitchin about it without follow up threads saying whether their problem was fixed or even if they'd been to the dealer at all yet. We've also seen some who say that the dealer's telling them it's normal, and one who seems to be made to jump through hoops verifying oil consumption, maybe in a buildup to be told "Sorry, there's nothing we can do, eh?" So we see the scattering of good and not so good treatment from dealers, which is pretty normal. The far extremes of dealerships actually have to be discarded in terms of figuring out if there's a problem Mazda can and should fix. Finally, (to me) the key to understanding the entire problem is the MS3 owner who reinstalled his stock pipes and the smoking actually went away.

On the one hand, if I were Mazda I'd tell you it should be expected, and recommend turbo upgrade in conjunction with exhaust mods. On the other hand, perhaps if I were Mazda I'd have done a right big exhaust in the first place and spec'd out a turbo with seals that matched. But, that wouldn't allow me to manufacture a car like the MS6/MS3 at the price, then would it? ...and guys would toss on an even bigger set of pipes and I might be facing the same problem anyhow. Of course, if I had three hands, there's the part where it sucks that you can't do basic warranty-safe mods and get more power without looking like a mosquito sprayer, and that hurts Mazdaspeed's rep from a tuning perspective. I would see this as most important, but it would be a tough sell to increase the performance of a part in case someone decided to modify another part of the system.

Bottom line is this: You mod your car, you go outside engineering specs. Exhaust mods on a MS6/MS3 will reduce the turbo seal pressure too far out of spec, and cause oil bypass and smoke. This may be surprising to some, but others, having done research have offered that it shouldn't be. IMO, unless you have a stock exhaust and your turbo leaks, Mazda shouldn't be responsible. If you installed a bigger turbo and blew up your motor because you didn't control the extra boost you wouldn't expect Mazda to cough up a new one. Technically, this is the same thing, and for that reason I have to disagree with the intent of the thread. I don't believe Mazda's seal design is responsible, at least not at this point in time.

Argue that an Evo or Subie wouldn't have this problem, and I say these aren't either one, they're Mazdas. Mod within limits or mod the limiting factors to compensate.

Not knocking the desire to mod, I have a modded 74 Vette. But with every mod I've done, I've taken into consideration the consequences of each, and built or beefed accordingly. I also base my decisions on lessons learned by Vette owners over the years. We're now learning those consequences, and how to base mod decisions in the MS6/MS3.

first off, excellent post.

second, that last bit is the part the people on this forum don't seem to understand. if you mod your car, its no longer the responsibility of the manufacturer to fix it. take responsibility for your actions. i'm all for modding. i modded my old protege, and it ended up with a couple problems, due to my modding. i lived with it because that was my choice to mod it.

good point with the Evo/STi. they actually sell a stripped down version for the sole purpose of modding....with lots of parts desgned by the manufacturer to work WITH the car. does Mazda have a MazdaSpeed Exhaust? if so, then i think we would have a legitimate complaint.

my last point to make before we both get flamed. if putting a bigger exhaust on the car caused a potential problem to be identified, then great. i'm all for that. but i dont think this is a problem until that bigger exhaust is added....
 
Well, I have seen a few dealers selling some Mazdaspeed mufflers as additions to the speed6 but I don't see anything legitimately listed as a CARB certified aftermarket exhaust system for the speed6 specifically.

Regardless, I don't see how lowering the back pressure on a turbo can be considered negative. This is specifically what a high flow exhaust system should be doing on a turbo charged vehicle and this should in fact extend the life of the turbo.

Back pressure on the engine can reduce its power. Any way of improving the overall flow of air through the engine increases the engine's efficiency. Improving the turbine wheel and housing design, reducing bearing friction or improving the overall efficiency of the turbocharger will reduce engine exhaust back pressure.


Also, it should be noted that most most other manufacturers do not complain about exhaust systems having negative effects on turbocharged cars. For example, my Audi A4 2.0T has a GIAC chip and ATP exhaust (runs great and sounds even better) and other WORKERS at the dealer are using these products as well and endorse them.

Perhaps this is what separates a solid manufacturer apart from Mazda and why Mazda is trying too hard to get into the "sport" compact car world.
 

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