It just died.

[exalted_one]

Ok, so today I was on my way home from school and my car crapped out.

I was accelerating fairly mildly going from 60-70 and around 65 it just lost all power (couldn't accelerate and barely maintained the speed I was going). I also heard some weird noise accompanied by a rough vibration that dissipated with the RPMs.

The only things I know right now until I tear the engine apart is that:
Coolant overflow tank has a significant amount of burnt smelling oil in it (just had it changed)
Loss of oil pressure
Weird noise vibration at time of passing.
I could NOT see any liquid around the actual head gasket.

I really was hoping to pick up a nice roller and do a fun build and take my time but it looks like now my focus will be just getting this thing back on the road. I'm not ready to be Protege-less yet.

So I need to get this thing back on the road for cheap to either A) last me a few more years or B) sell/trade in.


Anyone want to take any bets on the cause? I'm guessing it is possibly head gasket (lets hope) or cracked block. I am also afraid it spun a bearing, I have no idea why but that noise/vibration made me fear for the worst.

 

[jdoggsc]

dude that's like a horror story for me--especially since I have an 03 protege too. Just curious, how many miles do you have on it?

You already suggested my top suggestions: blown head gasket and cracked block. Generally a block wouldn't just crack like that unless it overheated or sustained a very strong sudden impact, so it seems less likely to me.

I was thinking a blown head gasket would very well have caused loss of cylinder pressure, and therefore the acceleration hesitation, but then again a cracked block could too... Honestly, you're gonna have to take the head off to see. I can't imagine being confident/satisfied in any other diagnosis if it were my car. Keep us posted.

 

[concept]

A broken timing belt will do what you describe. Check that, first.

 

[exalted_one]

Does anyone have any pictures of in inside of a high mileage motor? Looking through my spark plug hole it looks like soil there is so much carbon buildup. I think I may stop using truckstop gas from now on.

I will have some pictures tomorrow when I finish getting the head off.

dude that's like a horror story for me--especially since I have an 03 protege too. Just curious, how many miles do you have on it?

You already suggested my top suggestions: blown head gasket and cracked block. Generally a block wouldn't just crack like that unless it overheated or sustained a very strong sudden impact, so it seems less likely to me.

I was thinking a blown head gasket would very well have caused loss of cylinder pressure, and therefore the acceleration hesitation, but then again a cracked block could too... Honestly, you're gonna have to take the head off to see. I can't imagine being confident/satisfied in any other diagnosis if it were my car. Keep us posted.

I just hit 160k miles the other week, and have noticed a loss in power somewhat recently. I was actually planning on doing a compression test tomorrow when I had some free time to see if it was the head gasket going out. I also had other indications some burning of oil and coolant. I just didn't expect it to happen so fast. In my fathers old Protege (94') that thing blew some serious smoke every time it was started in the morning and he had to add coolant and oil constantly. I think he may have even been adding it daily before he traded it in.

A broken timing belt will do what you describe. Check that, first.

How would the timing belt cause oil and coolant to mix? But I took the valve cover off tonight and timing belt is A-ok.

 

[concept]

Sorry - didn't see the part about oil in the coolant.

 

[jdoggsc]

any update on this?

 

[exalted_one]

Sorry for not updating, between summer finals and the constant rain I didn't get a good day to work on it until yesterday.

I'm down to removing the intake manifold, which is being stubborn, then I can lift the head off and inspect the damage.


I think the water pump may have failed causing the over heat but I am not positive on that which scares me the most. I guess your cooling system only has so many components though. I will probably replace W/P, thermostat and do a system flush.

 

[Tyler_]

Good luck on your project, I hope all goes smoothly for you.
-Tyler

 

[exalted_one]

Ok, so today I got the damn intake manifold off I was missing to bolts on the bottom side (bang)


Here it is all torn open.

Cylinder walls look great and I can still make out the honing marks, I'm very impressed considering the car is at 161k miles. Clearly there is a LOT of carbon buildup, I may stop using the bad gas after this.
Also the liquid you see is a thick coat of motor oil I applied to prevent further rusting while waiting for parts to arrive.

#4 cylinder(and three) were filled with coolant when I took the head off and started to get some rust in it. From what I understand this is normal for anycar that has been sitting (generally for longer periods of time than this) and should not be an issue.

You can also see where the coolant broke up some of the carbon. I plan on putting ATF on all the cylinders and it should break down the carbon and allow me to wipe it off with a rag.


Due to the cylinder walls being in such great shape I have decided to order a re-manufactured head due to my belief that my current one will need to be resurfaced and require new valve seals plus it is just pitiful looking with carbon buildup and crusted up oil.

Also at this time I will do a 626 intake manifold to delete my VTCS problem I was having and I will replace my current exhaust and Cat with an ebay header.

All said and done my parts bill will be about $1000, but this includes many new parts that should keep the protege running problem free for some time (we hope).

 

[ToNeZ90]

my first car was a protege5 that had about the same problem your's had, but mine actually blew a piston at 102K. It was a very sad and frustrating day indeed. At least your internals are in good shape, man. Very good sign. See if you can find better aftermarket parts for the ones you need to replace. if it's the same price, then you might aswell do it. Good luck!

 

[exalted_one]

Painted my valvecover today because I was bored and don't have my new parts in. It came out terrible, I suspect the 86% humidity had something to do with that.

[/IMG]


Can't really tell but the clear is all sorts of messed up. Oh well, should be good enough to collect grease under my hood.

 

[exalted_one]

Well finished getting everything buttoned up today and started up for the first time and it is making a horrid metallic knocking noise. I also found many metal shaving the bigger of which are a bright color almost like that of Aluminum.

I did some research and I am almost positive I lost a bearing. Noise, Aluminum color of metal shavings (actually a tin alloy), and my all around s*** luck has all but confirmed this.

I am going to get someone to give me a second opinion but I am pretty sure it is boned.

With school starting soon I guess I will have to quickly get another car and I will probably fix this one then sell. I got a new top end I may just rebuild the short block now and wash my hands of it.

Sad day indeed.

 

[concept]

Sorry to see. I know guys who have over 250,000 liles on their MX6s. I guess this engine is not quite as stout. I wonder if a good catch can and Shell gasolene would've prevented that carbon buildup.

 

[exalted_one]

I wonder if a good catch can and Shell gasolene would've prevented that carbon buildup.

I don't know but on my next car/engine I will try all the good stuff and when it comes time to tear it down I will compare. Would be interesting to see what difference it makes. I am sure a lot of it is simply from the egr system, my intake manifold had a nice thick coating of carbon in it.

 

[concept]

Before Shell came out with their nitrogen-enriched gas, I would throw in a can of concentrated Techron at every oil change. Most PCV systems are guaranteed to pull crankcase oil (in blowby gasses) droplets into the intake and onto the pistons. I've been researching air/oil separation for years and continue to experiment with better ways of trapping those elusive sub-micron droplets of oil. Currently, I'm running a dual-filter element assembly that is performing quite nicely with a V8 (not my Protege, of course), which produces far more blowby oil than most 4 bangers. You can see the "white paper" here:

http://www.conceptualpolymer.com/Air_Oil SeparationBeyondBasics.pdf

My previous paper compares the various types of catch cans. Most are somewhat mediocre in their trapping efficiency.

 

[exalted_one]

Pretty sure I am going to do a tear down and rebuild, then decide if I am going to sell or keep depending on how it feels. I am slowly going to start tearing everything apart and when I get paid I will pick up an engine hoist and pull the motor.

Still haven't decided if I will do engine rebuild, engine re-ring, or just replace rod bearings. I guess it depends on everything, I may take it to machine shop and have all the clearances looked at.


Does anyone know what part of the FSM has the info on engine rebuild? I may start another thread an ask this question since this thread doesn't get much traffic.