Is Nissan a bunch of Liars?

P

PCspeed3

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Pearl White Speed 3
Mods feel free to move this to the off topic section a little later.

My friend just sent me this slide show about the Nissan GTR vs the Porsche GT2. Nissan claims the GTR laps the Nurburgring in 7mins 29sec but the best time the Porsche test driver could post was a 7min 54sec. Now if you watch the videos, they obviously are not pushing each car to the limits and the track conditions were not perfect, but the GT2 still posts a faster time. The turn by turn breakdown is interesting. just somthing to read up on if you get bored. (spin)

http://magazines.drivers-republic.com/driversrepublic/thetruth030/
 
The GTR that Nissan used was probably a pre-production model with tires that would have let the car drive up a wall.
 
nissan provided pictures of the tires that they used for that run.

not to mention the driver did a ton of laps around the ring, and knew every turn.

so its basically 1 part car, 1 part driver. Just because you have a gtr doesnt mean you can do mid 7 minute Ring lap. It takes alot of skill to be able to take a car that fast.

Now come with the V-spec posts lap times, and they arent better than the regular gtr, thats when things get fishy.
 
And Porsche would hire its own driver to drive the GTR around the N-Ring faster than a Porsche because...?
 
parkerfe said:
And Porsche would hire its own driver to drive the GTR around the N-Ring faster than a Porsche because...?
Click to expand...

The GT2 actually had a faster time than the GTR when Porsche's driver did this test, thats what all the hype is about.

------

Well I think the main reason they did this article was to expose that Nissan had a very skilled driver that lapped the Nurburgring probably 100+ times to get that low lap time. Whereas any other car/manufacturer would probably lap it maybe half as many or less times with a less than perfect driver and they would post that time. Take the ZR1 for a random example, I bet they could knock another 10+ seconds off that time if they had a veteran driver and 100+ laps to work with... Just thought it was interesting.
 
...at least Porsche isn't selling it's cars with launch control one year and then taking it away next model year because it happens to void warranty :)
 
The other option is to up the price of the car several thousand dollars as they re-engineer and beef up their transmission.

Which would you prefer?
 
'Ring times are the latest and greatest pissing match. Even worse than 1/4 mile times and 0-60 times because of how many variables there are in each lap. The manufacturers only release the best achieved time, not the average. There is little repeatability, and tons of variation. Hell, split second differences in braking around that track can add up to a few seconds in the end. The track is a great place to test a car's abilities, true...but I wouldn't read too much into the best posted lap time. A car that runs a 7:40 time will be just as fast as a car that runs a 7:59 time anywhere else...under 8 minutes is very very fast, especially with anyone other than a Formula 1 driver behind the wheel. A normal person would probably see closer to 8:30 or greater in either of those cars. Most people don't have the driving ability to push those cars to their absolute limit, so again...it just becomes a pissing match.
 
The gtr that was on the ring had cut slicks on it and they raised the boost. There's a reason the production model claims 430 to the wheels, and the one that went around the ring dynoed over 500+.
 
08ms3bm said:
The gtr that was on the ring had cut slicks on it and they raised the boost. There's a reason the production model claims 430 to the wheels, and the one that went around the ring dynoed over 500+.
Click to expand...

where did you get this information.

i read in one of the many links in the other thread that nissan provided pictures showing the tires on the car, were the ones you can get through the dealer. and then proceeded to offer porsche driving lessons from their driver who had done hundreds of laps around the ring.
 
happy and angry said:
The other option is to up the price of the car several thousand dollars as they re-engineer and beef up their transmission.

Which would you prefer?
Click to expand...

Well, the Ms3 is pretty much what I can afford while living comfortably so I can't afford, or plan on buying, a GTR, so I don't really care how they price it; and for the car community, I think the best thing that could happen would be they get that tranny to last properly, since that will spurr competition, improve the breed, make the tech trickle down, etc.

Since I'm not trying to threadjack here, I think you could make a case that the 'ringtime and the tranny's problems could be what happens when different departments in the same proyect start pointing in different directions. Marketing and sales want to brag about the spectacular lap time at what is, the most challenging circuit in the world; they also want to sell the public launch control and easily repetable 0-60s times. But legal will probably resent the laptime since it means they have to work a lot to keep the company from being discredited, and are also having headaches about liability with the tranny/waranty. Engineering probably told the rest of the company that the tranny was marginal in the first place(or for their own sake I hope they did); and while this is happening, corporate wants to see a nice margin/profit and keep costs down.

It's a very hard task to juggle all these things and at the same time, end up with something the public desires. As with version 1 of any product that packs some innovative solutions, there will be teething problems, and you have to wonder if they were too ambitious. I hope for Nissan's and the GT-R's sake they sort the issues out before they end up with something good, but that cannot be sold.
 
tiagotiago said:
Well, the Ms3 is pretty much what I can afford while living comfortably so I can't afford, or plan on buying, a GTR, so I don't really care how they price it; and for the car community, I think the best thing that could happen would be they get that tranny to last properly, since that will spurr competition, improve the breed, make the tech trickle down, etc.

Since I'm not trying to threadjack here, I think you could make a case that the 'ringtime and the tranny's problems could be what happens when different departments in the same proyect start pointing in different directions. Marketing and sales want to brag about the spectacular lap time at what is, the most challenging circuit in the world; they also want to sell the public launch control and easily repetable 0-60s times. But legal will probably resent the laptime since it means they have to work a lot to keep the company from being discredited, and are also having headaches about liability with the tranny/waranty. Engineering probably told the rest of the company that the tranny was marginal in the first place(or for their own sake I hope they did); and while this is happening, corporate wants to see a nice margin/profit and keep costs down.

It's a very hard task to juggle all these things and at the same time, end up with something the public desires. As with version 1 of any product that packs some innovative solutions, there will be teething problems, and you have to wonder if they were too ambitious. I hope for Nissan's and the GT-R's sake they sort the issues out before they end up with something good, but that cannot be sold.
Click to expand...


No, nissan never advertised the launch control feature, and its not in the manual.

as far as i know, the trannies arent going out on cars that havent been abused. This isnt any different than a guy in a performance manual car dumping the clutch at every stoplight. would said company cover his warranty? No.

does this mean nissan wont revise the transmission? Of course not. They are probably doing a ton of R&D right now, but trying to find a way so it doesnt become more costly on the car

give it another couple years or so, and youll see a lanch control feature return i bet.
 
I also read that nissan countered that claim with a video showing the tires on the GTR as well as the GTR making that time again. Nissan also extended an invitation to the porsche driver for free driving lessons or some s***.
I think i read this on an automotive news thread on .org
 
does this mean nissan wont revise the transmission? Of course not. They are probably doing a ton of R&D right now, but trying to find a way so it doesnt become more costly on the car
Click to expand...

They're removing the launch control system for next year's cars.

I also read that nissan countered that claim with a video showing the tires on the GTR as well as the GTR making that time again. Nissan also extended an invitation to the porsche driver for free driving lessons or some s***.
Click to expand...

Honestly, though...who cares? Wind speed, air temperature, humidity, wind direction, etc...all are NATURAL forces that play into a laptime on the Nurburgring. A car with a 10mph tailwind down the last straight might run a couple of seconds faster than a car with a 10mph headwind. There are a lot of long straights, and a bit of wind either way would really hurt or help. Throw the human element into the equation, and the variables are endless. If one person drove the car around and ran a time of 7:30, and another person went out and drove the same car in the same conditions, but got on the gas just a QUARTER second slower on 40 of the 100 corners, you're looking at a 10 second difference just THERE. Little slides here and there, airtime, early or late braking into a few corners...all are going to add a substantial amount of time on a track that long. The length and complexity of the track just doesn't lend itself to consistent lap times.
 
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