I don't expect everyone to take this seriously but...

[GhostMercury]

After being on this forum a while I have seen many threads about rear wheel drive conversions. But having seen the focus RWD conversion on TV recently I began to think a little. Now I can't remember for sure what platforms the MS3 shares, but I thought the focus had some similarities. So I was curious to how much of the Kugel conversion kit would be able to swap over. So even though I know I'm adding gas to a flame session, I'm still curious.

I don't expect everyone to be open towards the idea of converting the MS3 to RWD, but lets say this is to remain a project by someone with the tools, and access to people with the know how, to get it done without paying a shop to do it for them.

This wouldn't really be a bolt on conversions because most likely the rear would be tubed for wider wheels, and a channel for the exhaust pipes would have to be fabricated, along with all the mounting hardware for the new motor, trans, and rear end. Hopefully the exhaust could be run without making a channel for it because it would be a pain in the ass with a unibody car.

I like the idea of using a ls1 motor because of the light weight. And there is also a ls1 conversion kit for the rx7 so maybe some parts can be used to get the motor to work with the mazda system.

Some things that I could use input from are
- The compatability of parts from the focus conversion kit
- Ability of a v8 to fit in the engine bay
- Size of the rear to see if the mustang rear end would fit like the focus kit

Most people will wonder why, or say it's not worth the money, and just buy a RWD car. But I don't really want that, I happen to like the look and lines of the MS3, and obviously I could modify it and make it a fast car for the money that I would spend, but then it's not different from any other MS3, and it doesn't have that novelty factor.

So who can offer some useful insight?

 

[niky]

Don't really know how close the Mark I Focus is to the Mark II Focus in terms of engine bay and rear suspension design, but the Mazda3 is virtually identical to the Mark II and Mark II.5 Focus (we've installed Mazda3 suspensions on the Mark II, and the engine mounts and engines are virtually identical... differences in the engines are down to electronics and valve timing)... so if the US-spec Mark I that the kit is made for is similar enough to the Mark II, you have an outside shot at making this work.

From what I can see of the Mark 1 online (we didn't get it here), the engine bay layout is similar (can't tell unless you put them side-by-side if they're identical)... but the big issue will be the rear suspension layout. The newer C-platform cars have a very compact rear suspension design, so packaging will be tight, and you might have to custom fabricate some new stuff for the rear end.

The only way to know for sure is to put your 3 on a lifter beside a Focus and map out the differences.

 

[Super Unique]

Honestly I don't know if your really grasping the level of fab work required for a project of that nature.

Getting the axle under the rear of the car is the least of your worries.
The exhaust will not be easy either, but trying to fit a GM v8 under the hood is really pushing it. I envision extensive reworking of the front sub frame area, requiring extensive firewall and shock tower revisions to fit the large engine in there. There will also be a need for a fully revised front and rear suspension to handle difference in weight distribution. And this is just the starters.

Now even once you get all this together and working, you may discover further issues, needing even more modifications to get the proper handling and ride qualities.

definitely not for the timid, and when your all done, the expense is much higher than you started out thinking.

 

[MikeHTally]

Sounds like it's time for a radiator-cap upgrade.

 

[Super Unique]

I strongly encourage popping the hood on the speed3, note that the firewall extends down to the bottom of the engine bay.

Now take a look under the hood of a car with a GM v8 engine and rear wheel drive. Take notice of the large opening in the firewall that is there to allow space for the transmission and bell housing. The speed 3 lacks this and will require very extensive modifications. Also note that the interior of the speed 3 is designed around NOT having this large transmission hump in the floor. Yes, there is a tunnel down the center of the car for the exhaust, but it's not nearly large enough at the front to contain a large rear wheel drive transmission and bell housing in there.

also, when you modify the speed 3 to have this space, you will need new space for the exhaust system.
The structural integrity of the chassis will also be severely compromised by these modifications and will require additional work to restore this lost strength.

 

[Kain]

Sounds like it's time for a radiator-cap upgrade.

lawl.

 

[dandan2]

it would be a pretty big project but exhaust would be least of u r wories. just go from headers to y pipe to one single 3 inch exhuast to a 4 in n1 style exhaust ud have the appearance of an import but the motor of a corvette. lol

 

[nate0123]

It'd be easier to fit a corvette with a MS3 body kit.

 

[creedns]

you'd be sittin on a 70-80k mazdaspeed easily

 

[niky]

If the KugelKomponents kit will fit, you're part of the way there... but it'll still be a massive and massively expensive project.

If you're mechanically inclined, have a lot of equipment at home and are slightly deranged, anything is possible:
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2004368

Don't expect what's left of the MS3 to be worth anything once you're done. Not unless it's a clean Kugel conversion... and even then, it won't be worth half of what you'll spend.

Hell... might as well pick a base Mazda3 out of the wrecker for the project... saves you the heartache of destroying a relatively expensive sport compact.

It'd be easier to fit a corvette with a MS3 body kit.

You never know...

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2763036
(really fascinating build. And on a budget of $10k canadian...)

Reminds me of what one of those mod-shops did for one customer... cut the body off a new Challenger and weld a classic on top of the frame.

 

[GhostMercury]

Now that just renewed my hopes. Thats ******* awesome.

 

[Mybeauner]

If the KugelKomponents kit will fit, you're part of the way there... but it'll still be a massive and massively expensive project.

If you're mechanically inclined, have a lot of equipment at home and are slightly deranged, anything is possible:
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2004368

Don't expect what's left of the MS3 to be worth anything once you're done. Not unless it's a clean Kugel conversion... and even then, it won't be worth half of what you'll spend.

Hell... might as well pick a base Mazda3 out of the wrecker for the project... saves you the heartache of destroying a relatively expensive sport compact.



You never know...

http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2763036
(really fascinating build. And on a budget of $10k canadian...)

Reminds me of what one of those mod-shops did for one customer... cut the body off a new Challenger and weld a classic on top of the frame.

I'm sporting the same weedwacker. nice

 

[coololddude]

I had friends that mentioned the conversion. They are now in a home with very soft walls!

 

[Mid_Life_Crisis]

If you really want to be unique, move the engine/tranny to the back of the car.

 

[niky]

Now that just renewed my hopes. Thats ******* awesome.

Unfortunately, in the second one, there's nothing left of the Civic except the body panels, and I don't think you'd want to skin your current car Hannibal Lecter style... and in the first one, the only thing really left of the Civic is the front suspension.

I don't know about you, but I've always viewed the Mazda's rear suspension (and its chassis rigidity) as its greatest asset. The conversion would take away both of those.

The Kugel Komponents car, from what I've heard, doesn't really handle all that well... and neither does the Civette. Both have traction issues from not having enough weight over the rear end.

It's a fascinating idea, but unless you have mad 1337 fabricating skills... a dearly expensive one.

 

[Super Unique]

If someone wanted to be truly unique, and move in a proper direction here are some thoughts.


get rid of the 4 banger, and install a turbocharged 3 rotor engine, without measurements, I would think the perfect balance would require moving the front suspension slightly forward.

In the interest of really spicing things up, somehow achieving AWD with this engine package installed, you would rapidly gain truly astonishing performance and handling. Still an epic undertaking by any hand.

 

[Darth Vader]

how 'bout this: Take an MS3 engine, turn it around and install it behind the seats in a 1st gen miata...instant mid-engine car...oh but wait, only reverse would work to move the car forward....

 

[CorkSport]

I know of a race team who is making a RWD Mazda 3 for some european events. Should be interesting.

-Derrick

 

[Tronspeed3]

What about doing something like the "W12" GTI they had on Top Gear a few years ago? Mid engine RWD, granted that was undertaken by VW and probably like 500 engineers to make it work but....Youtube it its pretty sweet!

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/05/17/worthersee-2007-vw-shows-off-monster-golf-gti-w12-650-concept/

 

[niky]

how 'bout this: Take an MS3 engine, turn it around and install it behind the seats in a 1st gen miata...instant mid-engine car...oh but wait, only reverse would work to move the car forward....

If you turn the engine around, it'll be rear-engined, not mid.

-

The simplest way to get AWD? Get a front-clip from a wrecked MS3, cut out the rear end of yours and stuff the entire engine bay in there, shock mounts, wheels, and all.

Should take you all of a week. Then you'll have to have fuel cells built to go under the front seats (should get about 50 miles of range from the space available... ).

Then spend another two months trying to figure out how to link two gearboxes to one shifter and one clutch... and another six months trying to get the wiring harness of the second engine to work...