How does MS3's clutch point compare to that of other vehicles?

[ericm]

LONG POST ALERT

etc. Do what he said.

As for the DSG, it takes a while to get used to it. I didn't like my wife's R32 for quite a while but it's been growing on me. It's not a manual, and it's not an automatic (although it will pretend if you put it in auto mode).

It's not perfect though-
The paddles should be on the column instead of the wheel. You can't find them when you are turning the wheel. I use the floor shifter when I am in the twisties. Shifts are faster than manual but are not instant, so you need to account for that. There needs to be an auto mode between "drive" and "sport". Or better, a knob to adjust how agressive the auto mode is.

VW just replaces any trans that has a problem. Presumeably they get sent back to engineering and inspected to figure out what went wrong.

 

[LukeP]

I think you guys are crazy. (screwy)

My car exhibits no more throttle tip-in lag than just about any car I've ever driven with a cable operated throttle plate... (dunno)

You sure?

Like even just when its sitting in neutral, if I blip the throttle, my foot can be off the gas pedal and resting on the ground before the engine RPM's move. I complained to the dealer and asked for a reflash or ECU update but they want to charge me.

 

[Nliiitend1]

I'm sure.

Even with a physical cable connection, there is lag between when you put your foot down (and therefore open the throttle plate) and when the engine speed actually rises, as it takes time for the added air to reach the cylinder. I don't think that it's any worse on this car than any other otherwise similar car...

A lot of this has as much to do with flywheel weight and the mass of the rotating assembly than anything else (i.e., the heavier these components are, the more throttle tip-in lag)...

 

[LukeP]

Yeah there is a little bit of that on cable cars but its so minute compared to this. It feels especially flagrant on this car to me. I could repeatedly 'tap' the gas pedal in my old civic and it would start to sound like its stalling, which was funny, but it never had that long of a delay especially gear to gear. In the MS3 it's noticable, I get negative engine torque switching through gears if I don't stay on it all the way through the shift. Everything I drive when I get out of the MS3 makes me take notice of how responsive their throttles are (except for the newer van at work, which also is drive by wire).

Its like driving over a latent DSL connection. Instead of "hey I shot you thats BS" its "Hey I was on the gas, wtf".

 

[Nliiitend1]

Your Civic likely had a much less massive flywheel than the MS3's dual-mass unit, plus it's a smaller engine to begin with with less mass in the rotational assembly. I'd say those things have more to do the difference than anything else.

 

[LukeP]

The MS3 has a huge flywheel? Yeah that could be it. I thought it had something resonably normal in there. I wonder why I don't see this mod very often....I see a lot of engine mount stuff maybe thats part of it. The engine rocks causing a delay, plus the huge flywheel it has to turn....things are starting to make sense.

 

[Nliiitend1]

Well I didn't exactly say it was huge...It's just probably substantially more massive than a sub-2.0 liter Civic's single-mass unit.

I believe somebody makes a lightweight conventional unit for the MS3/MS6, but I don't know many details about it...

 

[mckraut]

The advice I can give you for learning any car is to start it moving under idle throttle a few times from a stop to get used to where the friction point is. Just clutch out slowly until it starts to bite and roll forward without any gas at all, and either hold it or very slowly release the clutch as it starts to roll forward. You'll get it rolling at maybe 3 or 4 mph without any throttle input, and start learning where that friction point is. It's sort of important.

I believe this to be good advice. I've taught 3 people how to drive manual and this is how I teach every time. After you get the feel for the clutch and where it lets out, then integrate the gas pedal as well.

 

[meicalnissyen]

I'm sure.

Even with a physical cable connection, there is lag between when you put your foot down (and therefore open the throttle plate) and when the engine speed actually rises, as it takes time for the added air to reach the cylinder. I don't think that it's any worse on this car than any other otherwise similar car...

A lot of this has as much to do with flywheel weight and the mass of the rotating assembly than anything else (i.e., the heavier these components are, the more throttle tip-in lag)...

truth here, I scared the s*** outta myself when i cold cranked the rolla after )another) three day clutch job starter spun it mad fast

difference? somethin like 19 lb off the crank with a fidanza flywheel and obx pulley

 

[meicalnissyen]

The MS3 has a huge flywheel? Yeah that could be it. I thought it had something resonably normal in there. I wonder why I don't see this mod very often....I see a lot of engine mount stuff maybe thats part of it. The engine rocks causing a delay, plus the huge flywheel it has to turn....things are starting to make sense.

jink=jank

cure?
hard mounts and a fidanza


course the cabin vibes will start some obscure rattle (lol2)

 

[hugador]

Well, here's a way you can find the friction point on a MS3. When your at a stop with your foot on the brake paddle, pull back the clutch and level it with the brake paddle and there's your friction point about right there. Let go of the brake and accelerate while you let go the clutch slowly. And you'll move as if the car is an atomatic. Keep doing this and you'll find the friction point a lot faster.

 

[Sergius64]

I had another lesson yesterday night with another friend's Mustang GT. We actually drove on the streets and stuff. It doesn't seem impossible anymore, but I seemed to be a lot worse at getting it to start from a stop when there's some other car behind me. I guess I have performance anxiety (sad2)

Good news is that I didn't get honked on the entire night even though I was stalling 3x times in front of some people. Bad news is that I almost rolled back into a car behind me after stalling 2 times and forgetting to put my foot back on the brake. If my friend wasn't in the car to remind me about the brake I probably would have rolled back into it.

 

[Silver Ecstasy]

You wanna know what helps driving this car? A motor mount! I'm in heaven after this morning's install.

 

[LukeP]

I had another lesson yesterday night with another friend's Mustang GT. We actually drove on the streets and stuff. It doesn't seem impossible anymore, but I seemed to be a lot worse at getting it to start from a stop when there's some other car behind me. I guess I have performance anxiety (sad2)

Good news is that I didn't get honked on the entire night even though I was stalling 3x times in front of some people. Bad news is that I almost rolled back into a car behind me after stalling 2 times and forgetting to put my foot back on the brake. If my friend wasn't in the car to remind me about the brake I probably would have rolled back into it.

Thats why people usually get a beater to practice on. If anyone's got an old car they don't mind you beatin' on for a while, then drive that, and I mean drive it alot. Like anything else you need to practice. Drive for hours and hours and day. I just recently had a friend start driving stick and there's no way in hell I'd let him drive my MS3!

 

[BillTheCat]

Nice job, and I did esstially the same with my kid (never passed the LP test, but I tried)

since you are old (experienced) like me, what is your comparative impression on this cars feel?

Are you referring to just the clutch feel, or my overall driving impression? I'm coming up on 6 months of ownership, and was planning to write up a sort of overall review in a few days.

 

[meicalnissyen]

Are you referring to just the clutch feel, or my overall driving impression? I'm coming up on 6 months of ownership, and was planning to write up a sort of overall review in a few days.

the clutch, but I'm interested in what you think overall

 

[Jasnall]

I hate the clutch in this car. I did Valet for 2 years and I dont remember any clutch being worse other than a 1960 chevy truck. Mine is stiff, feels like it engages at about 1/2-3/4 of the way out and has no give. When it catches it catches. Trying to drive this car when you're tired or lazy is annoying.
But my friend with a same year MS3 says my cluthc is stiffer then his and doesn't like it so i dunno. Ya its stock.
Love the car, hate the clutch and gear box.

 

[karl hungus]

it's frustrating but it's my clutch. i won't let anyone drive my ms3 for fear of f'ing up my clutch.

 

[dandydaniel]

learned how to drive stick on this car. i've only let 3 people drive my car. 2 of them LITERALLY learned how to drive a car on a standard and the both killed my car numerous times before even getting out of the parking spot. and then comes my girlfriend who drives a beat ass 200sx in a 5spd, who has NO idea what the hell single clutch downshifts, or heel-toeing or even what the hell a quarter mile time is, and she drove the car like she was the owner of it. it was ridiculous. so the point of my story is that anyone can drive the ms3, it just might be different for people.

 

[hyperpm]

speaking of heel toeing, its quite difficult to do it on this car since center tunnel gets in the way of right leg/calf.