High Flow Fuel Pump Internals Kit - MZR 2.3 DISI

[Russm]

Taking a HIKE would be a good start for an attitude like yours!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Alejo_NIN]

^random!

 

[EdgeAutosport.com]

Fuel pump is VERY important to keep track of and upgrade if you're modding the DISI. AccessPort is the best tool to tune and monitor. I just mentioned the 2 most important mods on this car hands down. Maybe not in any specific order but they are most needed/useful.

lol, you like them so long that you even go back to edit them add more!

no biggies man

and the reason why i ask about this is because i, too, am worried about the fuel pressure.
i have not had the chance to monitor it sinc ei don't have a gauge for it.
i've only had the MS3 for one month so i'm pretty new to this scene.

 

[Alejo_NIN]

i am 100% stock and hope to remain this way for a long time.
any benefits, besides monitoring, by having an AP?
can the stock engine's map be altered for better MPG? or performance?

 

[MSMS3]

Alejo_NIN: I think we're hijacking the thread, which is about the pump internals. I'll PM you regarding monitoring options. But if you are stock and intend to stay stock, I'm not sure there is much to discuss.

PM coming your way on monitoring and on remapping options.

Now, I return us to our regularly scheduled program - high flow fuel pump internals discussion.

 

[Alejo_NIN]

what are the gains from this upgrade?








trolling, get back to work!

lol.

 

[meicalnissyen]

Might not be a bad thing to "revive" this thread, as gen 1 cars are now starting to get some miles on them and even good pumps will eventually develop internal wear. My stock pump held pressure above 1600 psi, even with my mods below, until a few weeks ago and 61,000 miles of "spirited" driving. It began dropping pressure gradually until pressure fell below 1400 psi under high load.



BTW: This upgrade increases both volume and pressure. The kit piston and cylinder are much larger than stock, so you get more volume of fuel for each pump stroke. Data logging is showing pump pressure now as high as 2100 psi, compared to around 1750 max on the stock pump. However, the extra pressure probably cannot be actually used on stock tune or even with HT. My data logs show that "commanded" fuel pressure never exceeds approximately 1670 psi. But the extra capacity is good insurance and would certainly be a consideration for custom tuning.

MSMS3:

I couldn't help but notice your change of heart about internals after you had to replace your failing stocker.
got me thinking
as effective mods are added, the flow demands on the pump are increased, as long as it can still achieve a rail pressure of #1600#, we've considered it to be good to go

But it dawned on me that there is another factor that could be considered;

injector duty cycle time

with the autotech internals providing a rail of 2100, it would stand to reason that the commanded injection duration will be shorter for a given commanded AFR,
and squirting fuel late in the powerstroke with a stock pump stretched to its limits likely does not burn effciently.
those new internals might be giving better power for the same amount of fuel

any thoughts, or observations on this?

 

[MSMS3]

^ I think you're right. Pressure is definitely as high as 2100 although commanded pressure is still at stock-ish levels based on my present mods and tune.

I'll do some more logs but right now, I'm chasing a boost leak and running on spring pressure. Ugh. No loose clamps, probably a split or burst in a boost tube or a split or tear in the vacuum lines to or from the electronic boost control solenoid. Haven't had time to run the boost leak test. Probably tomorrow. Sorry for thread jack comment on personal issue.

I do think that having the extra capacity can only help and certainly eliminates the risks associated with the stock pump being marginal.

If the burn is more efficient, then I can see how it would make more power. Only data logging and maybe some dynoing will give the answer. Nice theory.

 

[meicalnissyen]

^ I think you're right. Pressure is definitely as high as 2100 although commanded pressure is still at stock-ish levels based on my present mods and tune..

Commanded pressure?
Opps I missed something . mechanical pump, there must be a pressure relief in there. is it a spring loaded valve? or is the ecu monitoring and bleeding of at some preset level?
either way, shoots my shorter squirt time thought down if the rail pressure is held to 1700ish regardless of pump output

 

[MSMS3]

Yes, the ECU does send a signal for what it senses is the minimum required fuel rail pressure. I can data log that and frequently do. I am logging both fuel rail pressure (which my log says sometimes is as high as 2100, (yes, that is RAIL pressure) and also logging ECU "commanded" pressure. I would guess that if actual rail pressure falls below commanded, then it "fattens" up the the injector "squirt" by spraying more fuel per shot. I would think the converse might be true -- that's your theory. So, I don't think this blows your theory.

Now, to track down that boost leak, so I can log.

 

[meicalnissyen]

Yes, the ECU does send a signal for what it senses is the minimum required fuel rail pressure. I can data log that and frequently do. I am logging both fuel rail pressure (which my log says sometimes is as high as 2100, (yes, that is RAIL pressure) and also logging ECU "commanded" pressure. I would guess that if actual rail pressure falls below commanded, then it "fattens" up the the injector "squirt" by spraying more fuel per shot. I would think the converse might be true -- that's your theory. So, I don't think this blows your theory.

Now, to track down that boost leak, so I can log.

cool, with one caveat.
say, your are at the end of a gear, 6K, you lift, the cam driven pump remains at 6K, pushing aginst closed injectors.

gotta be a relief set in there at X psi

 

[MSMS3]

I tend to agree, but really don't know. Maybe that's why some guys with big turbos and built engines when upgrading the pump internals also upgrade the injector seals? Maybe the injectors can hold that much pressure closed. I'm just guessing. A bit above my pay grade here.

EDIT: There is a thread on this subject over on the MSF board. The title is "high-pressure-relief-valve-option" (without the dashes) or words to that effect. There is, indeed a relief valve. It's not in the pump but in the fuel line, I think the return line. There are now options to upgrade the valve to allow higher pressure to be accessed for those doing custom tuning. Apparently some guys with very highly modded DISI engines up in the 400 whp range are running very high pressure to hit target AFR's with the stock injectors at that hp and fuel demand level.

I understand that the stock valve and the stock sensor will only work up to 2100 psi (2070 absolute), if I'm reading all of this correctly. If pressure goes higher, the sensor keeps sending 2100 psi, but shortly after that, the stock relief valve will open and normalize pressure.

On that other thread it appears that replacement valves are avaliable to up the relief point, and that tuning devices like AP can, indeed, "command" higher pressures at or above that range on those very hi po engines. They replace the valve and also upgrade the sensor, which would call for recalibration of the mapping in the ECU. Those guys are doing that with AP.

It also seems that there is agreement over on that and other threads there that even with the limitations of the stock relief valve and limitations on pressure in the stock tune or aftermarket tunes with slightly higher pressures, that there is a benefit in the form of better atomization of the fuel. That seems consistent with your theory.

So a shorter duration but higher pressure charge would be better atomized and ought to be more efficient and produce better power.

This is only what I read during lunch (lol), so I can't verify this. But it sounds like yet another good reason to upgrade the pump internals and that fuel rail pressure up to 2100 psi can be beneficial even if the ECU is only commanding about 1700 max. on more modestly modded engines like ours.

 

[meicalnissyen]

I tend to agree, but really don't know. Maybe that's why some guys with big turbos and built engines when upgrading the pump internals also upgrade the injector seals? Maybe the injectors can hold that much pressure closed. I'm just guessing. A bit above my pay grade here.

EDIT: There is a thread on this subject over on the MSF board. The title is "high-pressure-relief-valve-option" (without the dashes) or words to that effect. There is, indeed a relief valve. It's not in the pump but in the fuel line, I think the return line. There are now options to upgrade the valve to allow higher pressure to be accessed for those doing custom tuning. Apparently some guys with very highly modded DISI engines up in the 400 whp range are running very high pressure to hit target AFR's with the stock injectors at that hp and fuel demand level.

I understand that the stock valve and the stock sensor will only work up to 2100 psi (2070 absolute), if I'm reading all of this correctly. If pressure goes higher, the sensor keeps sending 2100 psi, but shortly after that, the stock relief valve will open and normalize pressure.

On that other thread it appears that replacement valves are avaliable to up the relief point, and that tuning devices like AP can, indeed, "command" higher pressures at or above that range on those very hi po engines. They replace the valve and also upgrade the sensor, which would call for recalibration of the mapping in the ECU. Those guys are doing that with AP.

It also seems that there is agreement over on that and other threads there that even with the limitations of the stock relief valve and limitations on pressure in the stock tune or aftermarket tunes with slightly higher pressures, that there is a benefit in the form of better atomization of the fuel. That seems consistent with your theory.

So a shorter duration but higher pressure charge would be better atomized and ought to be more efficient and produce better power.

This is only what I read during lunch (lol), so I can't verify this. But it sounds like yet another good reason to upgrade the pump internals and that fuel rail pressure up to 2100 psi can be beneficial even if the ECU is only commanding about 1700 max. on more modestly modded engines like ours.

makes sense, it has to be a recirc type system

it will be 2 years plus before I care about that limitation

i just logged(to honor your attention to fact) a 1678 at wot/load
to honor my dirthuggin voodoo beliefs, I continue to add a couple drams of MMO to each tank

?how does it feel to be the brightest person in Ol Miss? grinnnzzz

My GF called me a wuss when she first go outta the built 'rolla, and into the speed, couple seasons of Xcross and now she is quiet, perhaps pensive

when the warranty is up, and the funds allow.....
perhaps i can try a gt3071, downpipe, and autotech internals


just to RE wussify myself

 

[eric@edgeautosport.com]

If you guys need internals we have them in stock! PM for the best deals