Help w/ CEL

[unwrittenLaw]

Sorry for already posting this in the MSP thread about my CEL...
But I figured I'd put it in here because it might get better exposure to the more knowledgeable people...




I just got an invoice in the mail from my dealer the day after I took it in, stating information about the CEL.

This is what it says:

Cause: 1
375 Body Electrical Repair
7008 WM

P2006 UTCS IMRC BANK 1 STUCK CLOSED TESTED VARIABLE TUMBLE CONTROL SYSTEM AND FOUND NO PROBLEMS MAY HAVE BOOST CONCERN NEED VEHICLE COLD, SPOKE W/TECH AND NEED TO INSPECT TURBO AND WASTEGATE OPERATION OPEN, 98.4, 186 DEGREES, 0, -1.5, 2810, 64, 5 DEGREES, 104 DEGREES, 55, 69


Can someone please decipher this for me..I'm not sure what its saying. And they didnt tell me this yesterday, I dont know why they had to mail it out to me the next day. The part about temperatures..could that have to do with my weatherstriping removed.. And what does "BOOST CONCERN" mean, my boost gauge reads normal boost...so I don't know.

Thanks for any input...

 

[1sty]

UNfortunily the freebe protege manual I have from mazdaracing, whatever the hell they are, is useless and the codes either never line up or don't exist. They don't even list it in this POS manual version I have.

 

[unwrittenLaw]

Thanks for trying..I wonder where I could get an MSP manual from..

 

[perfworks]

i would think they are concerned about the function of the VTCS actuator assembly under boost. I can find out from my mazda bud on monday

 

[Matthew]

damn im sure my manual wont work because it doesnt have a turbo section...hmmm

sounds like they are saying the turbo is overheating or the pressure is not releasing?

 

[unwrittenLaw]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help..

Perfworks, could you explain what the VTCS does...? Sorry I'm still learning...would this have an affect on boost levels, because they seem normal, and my car seems to be running fine didnt notice a difference when the Cel started cycling on and off...

The thing thats wierd is that the CEL came on while I had my mbc on at 7psi (turned it down from 9)..but I dont know if thats what caused it because I had it on for awhile w/ no problems. So I took out the mbc and checked my boost gauge and it boosts to stock level. Then the CEL went off for a couple days, then came back on..and it seems to come off and on while i'm on the freeway. And I check the boost gauge often, no spiking or irregular levels, seems to spike at .42-.44hkpa and then settle around .34-.36 under load. My car runs fine so I dont know what to do..Everything is back to stock, not like I had much changed anyway...besides the copper spark plugs that I had put in last week, but I dont want to have to take them back out...spark plugs wouldn't cause a cel would they?

Anyway, I'm just a little hesitant to go back to them after they gave me all that crap about the couple mods I had and now mail me this invoice like they couldnt have told me the day it happened..just seems suspicious...or maybe i'm paranoid

 

[perfworks]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the help..

Perfworks, could you explain what the VTCS does...? Sorry I'm still learning...would this have an affect on boost levels, because they seem normal, and my car seems to be running fine didnt notice a difference when the Cel started cycling on and off...

The thing thats wierd is that the CEL came on while I had my mbc on at 7psi (turned it down from 9)..but I dont know if thats what caused it because I had it on for awhile w/ no problems. So I took out the mbc and checked my boost gauge and it boosts to stock level. Then the CEL went off for a couple days, then came back on..and it seems to come off and on while i'm on the freeway. And I check the boost gauge often, no spiking or irregular levels, seems to spike at .42-.44hkpa and then settle around .34-.36 under load. My car runs fine so I dont know what to do..Everything is back to stock, not like I had much changed anyway...besides the copper spark plugs that I had put in last week, but I dont want to have to take them back out...spark plugs wouldn't cause a cel would they?

Anyway, I'm just a little hesitant to go back to them after they gave me all that crap about the couple mods I had and now mail me this invoice like they couldnt have told me the day it happened..just seems suspicious...or maybe i'm paranoid

VTCS (variable tumble control system). There are a set of throttle plates right before head port. and right before the fuel injectors. under cold start up and until the engine reaches at least 65 degreesF, they stay closed. there is a small slit that allows a "tumbled" air charge to pass thru and mix with the fuel injected. This tumbling continues down the intake port and thru to the combustion chamber. Is it supposed to help with cold start emmisions by creating a more complete and efficient burn . That along with the first cat are supposed to make the vehucle a 50 state legal smog emmiting vehicle.
the plates open when vaccum is allowed to pass the VTCS control solenoid mounted on the intake manifold.

I really dont want to speculate on the CEL yet. i will ask someone i know that works on the mazdaspeeds and he will know for sure. He is not like some of the techs ive seen that know how to just change oil and filter. this guy knows his s***. because the P5's are the only others (along with the es) that have the VTCS and were not turbocharged they wont have that particular code.
It seems to me that maybe the VTCS plates will stay shut? dont think so but i cant really disipher what they are saying until monday when h is working to ask. I will find out for sure for you and post the details.

 

[unwrittenLaw]

Thanks for the info...

 

[unwrittenLaw]

Ok, I put my joep mbc back in and started to drive around to adjust. But everytime I turn it up a bit, it will only go to .40hkpa..about 5.8psi. I kept turning it up and it will not go past .40 at all. I have a feeling when I took it in for the CEL, the tech adjusted the wastegate or something. I can't raise the boost 1 bit...What the heck is going on here...? They didnt tell me that they did any changes or adjustments. This is pissing me off.....

 

[unwrittenLaw]

anyone..? This is freakin me out...

 

[igdrasil]

hmmm

maybe the wastegate is stuck?

remember that the JOEP MBC...to turn UP the boost you need to screw the bolt IN.

(dunno)

 

[unwrittenLaw]

Yeah I have been turning the screw in more and more, but it still stays at the same level of boost. I was thinking maybe the tech did something to the wastegate cause he thought that had something to do with the CEL..I dont know much about them and haven't touched it so I dunno...

 

[unwrittenLaw]

bump

 

[perfworks]

well i got two comments for this. first not to sound ignorant but this is a serious question.
did you check if they did somthing to the wastegate vacuum line?
did you notice anything like in a way if they diverted it to a different vaccum source? or a boost control solenoid? something. Trace the line from the wastegate actuator directly. follow it and see where it leads.
my other comment is maybe the MBC is not working properly. try it on another source and see if it increases and decreases pressure.
if you can give me some of this info i can help

 

[unwrittenLaw]

Thanks perfworks for the reply..I think this is an important issue too because a lot of people are running a little more than stock boost like I was. Since I disconnected the battery over a week ago, the CEL has not come back and my car seems to be running fine. I havent gone back to the dealer yet to leave it with them overnight so they can test it 'cold'...dunno if I want to go back yet...

Anways, I decided to put the MBC back on and turn up the boost just a little, now that I have the copper plugs..the detonation should not happen. So I installed it where I did last time, off the T fitting from the BPV to the Wastegate. From what I noticed, the wastegate line still connects to the T and everything else looks normal. I dont know exactly what the tech did because they did not tell me anything...this makes me untrust them even more and makes me think they are trying to pull something on me...

So I go out for about an hour on some back roads to try and get the MBC to a set level...But...it will not go past .40-.42 hkpa under load...once in awhile it will spike to .48-.50. And, I kept turning the screw in more and more, but it will not increase the boost at all it seems. I dont know much about the wastegate and I cant really get to it or see it well....but I have a feeling the tech maybe adjusted because in the invoice they stated there might be a "boost concern"...but I was running stock boost fine when I took it in, so I dont know. I think maybe the CEL was just a fluke, o2 sensor, or something, but then they saw the T had been tampered w/ so they throw in this "boost concern" crap.

But the vacuum lines look the same, I cant tell what he might have done to the wastegate. I can see it from the T to the wastegate, and it looks unchanged...but I can't be 100% sure that he didn't do something else to the wastegate..I cant think of anything else that could be holding the boost to stock levels...I still have the MBC in, and the screw is turned in pretty far, but still same levels of boost. I've read that the wastegate can be adjusted to change boost levels, if this is so, why do people use MBC's...sorry I'm just trying to educate myself...So, I just think the tech did something and they didnt tell me for whatever reasons...I mean it could be the MBC, but I checked it before I reinstalled it and it seemed fine..and it worked fine before I took it into the dealer....

Thanks for the help....

 

[perfworks]

the stock gate has a spring pressure of about 10lbs. it will allow up to 9-10 psi . that is the reason for the MBC because you can control the amount of vaccum the wastegate sees so you may increase boost to wherever you like. The only way the gate will open is if it "senses" boost pressure up against the spring. That mens you need to trace (when its cold) the vaccum source FROM the gate to the tee. Make SURE they didnt put it a diverter valve of some sort or a control solenoid . This is just speculation but it is a way to diagnose your problem. From there if the vaccum source is OK i would check your MBC. It is your right to know by the way what the dealer did to YOUR car. demand to know what work was performed or else your filing a complaint.

 

[unwrittenLaw]

Thanks,
I haven't contacted them yet since last time so I'm not sure what to ask them. I don't want to seem suspicious...I'm going to take the MBC off tommorrow and see if anything is wrong with it...
I dont see any diverter valve or solenoid but then again, I dont have the best view of everything down there from the top...

 

[hesitationhater]

Do you have any new sounds coming from the car when you hit peak boost? I turned the screw almost all the way in on mine and had very little increase in boost, also around .48-.50hkpa max. Whenever I would hit the peak I would hear a humming type noise and actually drop to around .28-.32hkpa. I only had it on for a couple hours and even now without it, I still have the same noise and drop in boost.

I think I have a cracked IC pipe or leaking BPV I will find out which when my iON kit arrives.

 

[unwrittenLaw]

I havent heard any strange sounds...but my boost holds steady. I'm going to take out the mbc and see what happens. As far as cracked pipes or leaky BPV, I dont think I have any leaks, the BPV is suppost to be pretty good for this application. In the past people thought it might be leaking, but I remember a few testing it out and finding that it worked fine...
If I had any leaks/cracks, I dont think the boost would be holding steady like it does...

 

[hesitationhater]

Does the wastegate chirp- or gobble get louder as you turn the screw more? Mine sounded crazy when I had that thing cranked. No extra boost though Just a gobbling, farting car