Help - Advice on finishing my setup - bought some parts

[Nomad]

I just bought these from cardomain store:

<TABLE id=items_table cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class="sku_row companion_row"><TD class=desc>Streetwires PSK08R Amplifier Wiring Kit
8 guage



</TD><TD class=qty>



</TD><TD class=price>$12.00



</TD><TD class=total></TD></TR><TR class="sku_row companion_row"><TD class=desc>Dynamat Xtreme Custom Kit Damping Accessory
4sq ft



</TD><TD class=qty></TD><TD class=price>$11.00



</TD><TD class=total></TD></TR><TR class="sku_row companion_row"><TD class=desc>Clarion DXZ575USB MP3 Player
MP3 CD with USB 4x19w RMS 4x53w max



</TD><TD class=qty>



</TD><TD class=price>$114.00



</TD><TD class=total></TD></TR><TR class="sku_row companion_row"><TD class=desc>Panasonic CY-PA4003U Multi-Channel Amp
4x64w RMS or 2x225w rms



</TD><TD class=qty></TD><TD class=price>$68.00



</TD><TD class=total></TD></TR><TR class="sku_row companion_row"><TD class=desc>Scosche Connector Kit In-Dash Receiver Accessory



</TD><TD class=qty>



</TD><TD class=price>



</TD><TD class=total>$0.00 </TD></TR><TR class="sku_row companion_row"><TD class=desc>Scosche MA03 Car Stereo Wiring Harness



</TD><TD class=qty>



</TD><TD class=price>



</TD><TD class=total>$0.00 </TD></TR><TR class="sku_row companion_row"><TD class=desc>Scosche MA1535 Car Stereo Installation Kit



</TD><TD class=qty>



</TD><TD class=price>



</TD><TD class=total>$0.00 </TD></TR><TR class=presubtotal_gap><TD colSpan=4></TD></TR><TR class=subtotal><TD class=label colSpan=3>Subtotal</TD><TD class=value id=subtotal_value>$ 205.00 </TD></TR><TR class="subtotal bonus"><TD class="label bonus_note" colSpan=3>Additional savings for this order</TD><TD class="value bonus_note" id=discount_value>$ -30.75 </TD></TR><TR class=subtotal><TD class=label colSpan=3>Shipping </TD><TD class=value id=shipping_value>$ 15.10 </TD></TR><TR class=subtotal><TD class=label colSpan=3>Sales Tax</TD><TD class=value id=tax_value>$ 0.00 </TD></TR><TR class=presubtotal_gap><TD colSpan=4></TD></TR><TR class=subtotal><TD class=label style="TEXT-ALIGN: right; BORDER-RIGHT-COLOR: white" colSpan=3>Total Amount Charged:</TD><TD class=value>$ 189.35</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I thought that price was too hard to pass up on the HU and the amp. I'd been watching these for a bit and the price dropped, I also used an ad code "blowout" for an additional 15% off.

I'll use the Clarion HU to power the stock speakers till I listen to all of the speakers I can find locally. Hopefully the Clarion HU with USB will not be a turd.

I need a sub! As if you couldn't tell from the list. I'm still debating on running the 4 channel amp to:
A- push front speakers or front components and a single sub
B- just run it all to the sub and get a higher wattage sub
C- use it to run two subs 8" or 10"

Would a single 10" or two 8" be best for punchy accurate bass? Should I get SVC or DVC?

I primarily want musicality but be able to crank the bass when I want to. The problem is that I also want my rear hatch space. I'm entertaining building a narrow MDF box, or a side pod fiberglass box.


I just want to hear the "experts" brainstorm.
Ideas?

 

[chuyler1]

A single 8" or a single 10" should be fine for a fiberglass box in the side. Airspace is ideal for an 8" but you can squeeze a 10" in there if you build it out just a little like in my sticky thread. An 8" sub can really pound in a hatchback like the Protege5.

 

[EMPIRE]

I have a 10inch Alpine type R sub for $60. Pm me if you want it I have pics will post it when I get home.

 

[Nomad]

Should I look at dual voice coil subs or single voice coils?

I researched some and think I need to pick a sub that has the same RMS rating as my amp (right?).

There are subs with DVC and SVC at 4 ohm at the same 200 or 250 rms rating. There are also subs at 150 rms rating.

Empire: I'll look up the specs on the alpine sub but I have a feeling it needs more power than I have.

 

[chuyler1]

I'm guessing you want to use 2 channels of your amp bridged correct? That means you want a 4ohm total load to maximize the output of the amp without causing it to overheat. You can accomplish a 4ohm load with a 4ohm SVC subwoofer or a 2ohm DVC subwoofer (VCs wired in series).

 

[Nomad]

Bridged either:
two channels bridged to one 225w @ 4ohm, or all four channels bridged to two 225w @ 4ohm.

Is your way using two subs? Or just one?
Sorry, the wiring gets me confused if I don't see a pic.
Will any of these help? http://www.crutchfield.com/learningcenter/car/subwoofers_wiring.html

I'm leaning towards one 10 or two 8s unless like you say a good 8 with enough power will really do well.

 

[chuyler1]

Just one sub rated for about 200-250w will be fine whether it is an 8" or 10". Then you can use the front channels of the amp for front speakers.

 

[Nomad]

Any benefit to using dvc or svc?
I assume these are the wiring schemes you mean?

 

[chuyler1]

No, there is no benefit once you know what wiring scheme you are going to use. DVC and SVC are really just a way for subwoofer manufacturers to reduce the number of versions they have to make.

 

[Nomad]

cool.

I also read that you can use each channel to go into seperate voice coil. If I used the 4 channel amp bridged to 2x225w and then put each channel onto a voice coil would I need a sub with 450W capacity@ 4ohm?

I think I'm just going to choose one from cardomain as their prices with this discout are good right now.

Also, when a speaker, component or coaxial, says recommended RMS is 30W, 40W or 60W what level of degraded sound are you getting from running afermarket HU wattage?
In the past I just used HU power to drive aftermarket speakers and it always sounded way better than stock. The speakers always "seemed" fine.



And thanks for all your help! I've read tons of your old posts and your advice always seems good. you don't just tell people with $200 to "save up $800 more, and buy what I like" etc. (That's one of the reasons I went with Clarion, I'd only had sony and panasonic before.)

 

[chuyler1]

Yes you can bridge both front and rear channels of your 4-channel amp and power a DVC 4ohm subwoofer in that configuration. I wouldn't really recommend it though. It is better to have your subs on a single channel.

There isn't much sound degradation by running a 60W speaker from a 10-20 watt head unit amp. It will sound better than stock but you won't be getting the most out of your speakers. If you like turning up the music you will find the bass doesn't keep up with the treble with such little power. The speakers will produce significantly more bass when powered with an aftermarket amp. That is why I recommend the 3-channel setup. A subwoofer powered off bridged channels and two front speakers powered of the other 2 channels. Rear speakers can stay connected to the head unit for fill or you can disconnect them completely.

The only time I actually wish I had rear speakers is when I am traveling with friends in the back and I want the music on at a low volume for ambiance while we chat. At low volume the passengers in the rear hear the bass but not the detail and vocals. At high volume they hear everything just fine but then I can't hear them talk Anyway, its very rare that I have more than just my wife and I in the car for more than a short ride so I usually don't bother with rear speakers.

 

[Nomad]

my son would probably appreciate no rear speakers.
That's why I listen a moderate levels most of the time.


Now I've got to convert all my CDs to high level MP3s and load them on my USB stick.
Sweet, no more CDs...

 

[Nomad]

Cardomain is selling out of all their inventory. I should have bought but I waited. I missed out on some great deals.

Oh well. I just picked up a Sony 8" sub 4ohm SVC, 220 watt RMS. I hope it's a decent sub, I wanted to save money but couldn't bring myself to buy the brands like "boss" "pyle" etc. This subwoofer is called a "P5" cone", I guess it was meant to be...


I also got some 6x8 sony coaxials that were in my budget. 65W RMS handling matches up nicely to the amp. I think this will take care of the front and sound fine for me. I couldn't spend $100 on components, not this year.



Thanks for all the help, I'll report back when I have it all installed.
This should conclude my $300 audio challenge. $290, not including some MDF or fiberglass resin at Home Depot.

 

[dezine]

Yes you can bridge both front and rear channels of your 4-channel amp and power a DVC 4ohm subwoofer in that configuration. I wouldn't really recommend it though. It is better to have your subs on a single channel.

There isn't much sound degradation by running a 60W speaker from a 10-20 watt head unit amp. It will sound better than stock but you won't be getting the most out of your speakers. If you like turning up the music you will find the bass doesn't keep up with the treble with such little power. The speakers will produce significantly more bass when powered with an aftermarket amp. That is why I recommend the 3-channel setup. A subwoofer powered off bridged channels and two front speakers powered of the other 2 channels. Rear speakers can stay connected to the head unit for fill or you can disconnect them completely.

The only time I actually wish I had rear speakers is when I am traveling with friends in the back and I want the music on at a low volume for ambiance while we chat. At low volume the passengers in the rear hear the bass but not the detail and vocals. At high volume they hear everything just fine but then I can't hear them talk Anyway, its very rare that I have more than just my wife and I in the car for more than a short ride so I usually don't bother with rear speakers.

Would it be possible to run a DVC sub at 4ohms wired in series and let's say the front speakers off a 4-channel amp? I'm trying to install my JL 12"W3v2 sub (which I have a JL 250/1mono amp on the way for it now), but since you mentioned having an amp power speakers and sub, I became intrigued heh. I'm still a noob to this setting up stuff and wiring everything.

Currently right now I have my aftermarket HU powering my infinity reference speakers, but would like to get more out of the speakers as they can get to 60W RMS and I know for sure the HU itself can't and never will get the most out of those speakers. I like your idea of just letting the rear speakers just run off the HU for people in the back and having more power to the front ones to get the better bang.

Thanks for your insight so far and I'm open to all opinions or suggestions, because like I said, I'm still in the noob stage lol.

Also, I need to find somewhere or somehow figure out how to remove kick panels to get wiring done for amps as I'm assuming I need to. I have gotten the door panels off fine for the speakers, but I'm not so sure on what to do to run wires up to the battery from the amp and everywhere else. Any suggestions on that would be awesome. Tried searching for it and I didn't seem to find info. (confused)

 

[chuyler1]

If you wired a DVC 4ohm sub in series it would give you an 8ohm load. You could wire this up to the rear channels of a 4 channel amp without any issues. However, double check the wiring because if you were to wire it in parallel there WOULD be a problem. However, if you had a choice, I would recommend a SVC 4ohm sub instead, because this would double the output of the amplifier while staying within a safe impedence range. (Most 4 channel amps can handle a 2ohm load per channel and a 4ohm bridged load is equivalent to this -- each channel sees 2 of the 4ohms essentially).

Kick panels, and all interior panels usually just pop off. Remove the long running panel in the door jam first (this one just pops up). Then feel around for any button clips, there might be one on the far side. After that it should pop right out.

 

[dezine]

If you wired a DVC 4ohm sub in series it would give you an 8ohm load. You could wire this up to the rear channels of a 4 channel amp without any issues. However, double check the wiring because if you were to wire it in parallel there WOULD be a problem. However, if you had a choice, I would recommend a SVC 4ohm sub instead, because this would double the output of the amplifier while staying within a safe impedence range. (Most 4 channel amps can handle a 2ohm load per channel and a 4ohm bridged load is equivalent to this -- each channel sees 2 of the 4ohms essentially).

Kick panels, and all interior panels usually just pop off. Remove the long running panel in the door jam first (this one just pops up). Then feel around for any button clips, there might be one on the far side. After that it should pop right out.

That was my typo up above. I meant I had a DVC 2ohm sub which would be wired in series to create the 4 ohm load. But that sounds great, which I would really want to do now. Only problem now is that my mono amp will be in tomorrow just for my sub and I don't think my HU can support multiple amps if I wanted to keep the mono amp and have another to support the internals.

Thanks for that info on the kickpanels as well .

 

[chuyler1]

There is no reason why your head unit cannot support multiple amps. If it doesn't have multiple sets of RCA pre-outs you can always use y-splitters. Some amps also have pass-through or output RCA connections so you can send your signal to the amp and then send it over to a second amp with a short RCA cable.

 

[dezine]

There is no reason why your head unit cannot support multiple amps. If it doesn't have multiple sets of RCA pre-outs you can always use y-splitters. Some amps also have pass-through or output RCA connections so you can send your signal to the amp and then send it over to a second amp with a short RCA cable.

Heh, I'm learning with every post you make. (bowdown) Yeah because it only has one RCA pre-out and have never thought of the y-splitter. Guess that means I can be shopping around for another amp soon .

 

[Nomad]

Got the headunit installed and even with stock speakers it's an improvement.

Thanks to Chuyler1 for the Clarion recommendation. This headunit is the best I've ever had. I'd probably have ended up with some cheap unit if not for your advice.

This headunit has seperate Sub control, HPF, LPF, aux in, usb in, ipod in, CD/MP3/WMA/ACC, 3-4 preamps massive tuning control with way-over-my-head sound frequency control and great preset levels for oem speakers, components, coaxials etc. I'm still learning to use it.
And all this in a relatively simple faceplate, no silver paint or disco-balls.

 

[chuyler1]

Which model did you end up going with?

Clarion is by far my favorite head unit brand. They make a solid product that is easy to use.