Guidelines for your MSP in the Winter

[isbre]

I tried posting a while back, but it didn't show up... It's an old thread now but winter is coming every year.

Oh darn it's cold here, and has been especially the past 3 years. Every winter it's getting colder, not before WWII it's been as cold as now (or so they say) Normally we see first snow here in the southern part of Norway around February / March but the last years it's been December / January. This year first snow this season came 2 weeks ago.

Well to the point. The MSP is a decent winter car, but watch out for that ultra-sensitive ABS system and the LSD that is working against you on icy conditions, that issuse has nothing to do with the MSP specificly, just an issue with FWD cars with mechanical LSD's (you get wheelspin on both sides and your car skid out of a turn faster than a war without LSD.).
Here are some of the best hints that I can think of. Prepare the car for the season by getting some silicone spray on the rubber seals, charge or even replace the battery, spray on some rust protectant every 3-4 years and get some decent winter tires. On tires; Contrary to popular belief wider is better on all conditions except for at least 5cm (2inches) of unplowed snow and far superior on ice, I'm running on 205/55/16 myself but I am considering getting some in the original dimension if I can find the money for them. The most expensive tires isn't neccesarily the best option, every winter tire has their stong points and weak points, get the set that is most suited for your local conditions.

When driving on icy condtions my best hint is to steer to much and yse the gas pedal to control the understeer, this way you can also use the clutch to cut power to the wheels and get your car back on your side of the road as soon as possible with minimum movement of the steering wheel if you do get out of control (Don't get me wrong, do straighten up the front wheels if you have to, but usually the clutch is the best tool). It's a bit tricky at first and if you don't understand the physics behind this DO NOT even try it. Snow is usualy your friend, there is no problem driving at normal summer interstate speeds on a good road with only snow, it's what you don't see underneath that is causing the troubles, and that can cange very suddenly so keep that in mind.

When starting on a slippery uphill it's important to remeber that you drive a manual transmission, use it to your advantage!. Don't use much gas when starting, I'd say maximum RPM at start would be 1200 and don't mind the extra clutch wear that comes with being gentle with the clutch pedal, start with the E-brake if you have to, but if you can do it with just the normal brake pedal it gives you a better feel and certainly impress your passengers more. When you have started getting some speed change gears only if you have to and when you d:, do it fast. Try to avoid getting over 2000RPM and never go past 2500. Remember that ANY wheelspin is your worst enemy. Master this and you can pretty much stop right beside a AWD SUV stuck in the middle of an uphill, start again and, if you are a bit evil, have your camera ready for the Kodak moment on the AWD drivers head.

My best hint for those of you who are unceratain on how your MSP will react in different situations would be to find some open space with nothing to hit and just fool around and notice how the car is reacting and remember that when you drive on a road with similar conditions.

my msp is rusting away big time....every thing under it is COVERED in rust..idk how to stop it or stall it or anything cause theirs just so much.

Too bad, it's a bad way to figure out that no new car is good againt rust. Just be glad you don't have a similar aged "Old-Guy-Star" (Mercedes) E-class!

 

[HighSpeed]

I learned the hard way last year when I drove 800+ miles with my MSP thru a Blizzard with summer tires. It took over 24hrs, and was not what I wanted to do. Interstates that were under 1ft. of snow and 2 ft on surface streets. I learned to make every movement very subtle, no jerking, no hard braking, that is what got me home........and I will never, ever, ever,ever,ever do that again!

 

[isbre]

I learned the hard way last year when I drove 800+ miles with my MSP thru a Blizzard with summer tires. It took over 24hrs, and was not what I wanted to do. Interstates that were under 1ft. of snow and 2 ft on surface streets. I learned to make every movement very subtle, no jerking, no hard braking, that is what got me home........and I will never, ever, ever,ever,ever do that again!

2 ft on surface street, in other words snow all around up to the middle of the headlights, I find it hard to believe that actually, that would make in almost impossible to even open the doors on the car without using all your migth. (But I do remember the weather forcast when I was an exchange student in SD, they said that 36 inches (3 feet) had fallen and the gorund was covered by just over 1 inch of snow.)

And I forgot, when breaking, keep the gears engaged as longible away as possible to maintain control and take away as much control as possfrom the ABS unit.

 

[HighSpeed]

2 ft on surface street, in other words snow all around up to the middle of the headlights, I find it hard to believe that actually, that would make in almost impossible to even open the doors on the car without using all your migth. (But I do remember the weather forcast when I was an exchange student in SD, they said that 36 inches (3 feet) had fallen and the gorund was covered by just over 1 inch of snow.)

And I forgot, when breaking, keep the gears engaged as longible away as possible to maintain control and take away as much control as possfrom the ABS unit.

I drove from Missouri to Birmingham AL. I left Missouri and there was only dust on the ground. By the time I got to Illinois the roads were terrible. There was 2FT on surface streets that I didnt take. This was the blizzard that hit middle US last year in Jan. Some exits were shut down because the snow was so high. I stopped to eat in Kentucky at McDonalds, had to be towed out of the parking lot and onto the on ramp by a Blazer, I have tons of pix. Not everywhere was 2 ft, but the 2 ft was at exits that were closed and had most of the snow. Believe it or not, I could care less, I stayed up 24hrs in a car to see my 2nd daughter born.....hence the reason I did it.

I think the LSD was my saving grace on this trip, if you are suble it works in your advantage and makes FWD fine for snow.......just have some good tires

 

[isbre]

The LSD is a very good thing to have on snow, it's bad on ice. I'm sorry if I didn't get the point clear, since it's a very good point. I'm glad you made it to the birth of your 2nd daughter, that would have made it worthwhile, I agree.

I would love to see some pictures. I don't have too many myself, especially since I was in USA on vacation during the worst snow last winter, but I can start anyway. I took some pictures last May since it suddely was a rather heavy snowfall about 3 hours during work time after the ground had been free from snow weeks. I actually measured the snow that day to be 8 inches, that's barely enough to get some snowplow action from the front bumper and doors, but still significant, especially for under 4 hours.

Before starting from work:

When I got home it looked a bit like a 323F/P5, let's call this pic "Lazyness":

Sorry about the crappy cellphone quality

 

[asdflovejkl]

Hey guys, I'm having the CEL on on cold starts, happened twice when i left my car out for more than 24hrs in the cold, I have a AEM CAI, i know you guys have worse weather than me since i live in Cali, but just wondering if you guys have any idea to what happened? the CEL went away after 2 or 3 days the first time and it's now on again, just want to make sure it's nothing big..
have yet to get a SSAFC and the engine's almost at 170k kinda worried lol

 

[Ricktalife]

Go to a local Pep Boy's, Advance Auto or whatever you have in Cali and get the code scanned. They should do it for free, and until you get a number we can't do anything but take a shot in the dark.

 

[highflyin285]

i want to know some brands of this rust proofing people are using and where your picking it up

 

[isbre]

i want to know some brands of this rust proofing people are using and where your picking it up

I used Dinitrol, they have a whole line of products from primer, oil and paint. Noxudol is also a good option, they also have the 3100 option that has less rust proofing abilities but more focused on sound deadening, very good if you are interested in stereos.

But I didn't do it myself, it is not very easy to get the metal cleaned good enough and very easy to get moisture trapped and either ones will not just make everything for nothing, but in most cases also make it worse than it was before. It is also very easy to ignore things if you don't have the manual, it isn't smart to bore holes in the wrong places or jam up things like the doorlocks and mirrors - have it professionally done!

 

[Patrickenator]

whats a ballpark price on 'professional rust-proofing'?

 

[isbre]

whats a ballpark price on 'professional rust-proofing'?

I really can't tell you how much it will be in the US, I have no idea, but...
I paid 3900NOK (that's somwhere around $650) but it's probably way cheaper "across the pond." Only reason that I wanted to do it back home is that the extreme harsh conditions on the roads at winter in Norway makes for very good rust proofing shops with products that that can handle the at times rather extreme amunts of salt here - and the extra warranty from the rust proofing shop.

To simplyfy: There are two basic product for rust proofing, oil based for encapsulated (hidden) parts and the Tectyle or equivalent thick anti corrosive paint for the panels underneath and inside the wheel arches (above the plastic covers), the best shops use both and the shops will have to hold your car overnight after cleaning and use most of the next day for the treatment. If they don't demand to have your car for at least 24 hrs they will not have the chance to do it right. Sorry that I can't be of more help.

 

[Patrickenator]

that is still very helpful - thanks!

 

[HaleTru]

Wow thats a lot of work to prep. Thank goodness our winters are like a mild summer here. I don't really have to worry about any of that, thank goodness. And if it does snow here, they use sand. But the last snow we had was 4 years ago. Am curious though, does boost increase in the winter? just because of the denser air?

 

[isbre]

Wow thats a lot of work to prep. Thank goodness our winters are like a mild summer here. I don't really have to worry about any of that, thank goodness. And if it does snow here, they use sand. But the last snow we had was 4 years ago. Am curious though, does boost increase in the winter? just because of the denser air?

Boost pressure remains the same, but denser air means more air, it's like putting a slightly bigger turbocharger on at the same pressure, higher bosst spikes might occur though. The thinbg you notice the most is that the cars pulls a bit smoother, but that goes for any car, forced induction or naturally aspirated.

 

[goldenboy88]

For batteries that aren't top of the line I've used Motomaster Eliminators, good CCA and they've started an older 4.3 that sat overnight in -40ish weather in one shot. As far as fwd winter driving, as previously mentioned find a wide open area where you won't hit anything and just learn how your car reacts, I'm big on parking lot drifting as soon as the first snowfall hits every year so that I can get back in the groove, through that I can add that along with the clutch, counter steer ebrake and throttle to get your car back in the straight, just remember to follow through with the counter steer otherwise your just going to go sideways again. I've only had one accident in the winter and that was sliding 50 ft on black ice while trying to turn out of the way in a rwd truck. Considering I'm a truck driver and a driving junkie, I think I'm doing pretty good. If I upgrade to an msp shortly this will be my first boosted winter so you can bet I'll be spending some time getting used to the car as soon as the fluff falls.

 

[speedfreak03]

why would you drive your msp in the winter???? it took me well over 5 months to find a decent msp in Minnesota, all were rust buckets since the state uses a chlorine based salt, it eats cars alive. my old BMW had succumb to rust after just 4 1/2 winters. but if you choose to drive yours in the winter that just makes mine worth more.

 

[Ricktalife]

Not everybody can afford to have 2 cars. After all, we are talking about a Protege. Not exactly like driving a Ferrari in the winter.

 

[speedfreak03]

winter beaters are cheaper than body work and msp's are very rare

 

[Mazda Doode]

I'm forced to drive my MSP this winter, first winter it's seen though so I figured one will be okay...especially since we've gotten s*** for snow in MN. It'd be nice to have a winter beater too, but I've got no place to store my MSP right now

 

[super1chow]

my MSP's been stored away since Nov. got this POS to drive for the winter

Cost: $1000

MSP way to rare to drive in the winter, mines never seen a winter so it only has 39k miles