Geneva: Mazda3 MPS and Mazda3 refresh press release and pics

[NJP5Guy]

250km/h electronically limited? 280lb torque? 60% more roll stiffness? AAAAARGH!!! I got drool all over my keyboard...................


(first)

i got more than drool on my keyboard.

 

[eting_pro5]

Doesn't the MS6 make 256 HP in Europe? If they're putting the MS3 and MS6 so close in Europe, could they do it here also?


Not that I'm bitching about 250 HP, just something to think about. Discuss.

 

[RHAGEL]

I'm impressed. Especially since the 2.0 in Europe is getting the 6 speed manual. That is a good indication that our 2.3 S will get one also. I know the new Sentra is offering a 6 speed, so this will be good to see. Automobile Magazine had a lond term test on a S hatch and I know they made comments on wanting another gear. Now what about the price...still waiting on that.

 

[CitizenPro]

Anybody know the wieght on this bad boy??

2900lbs maybe??? not sure what the wieght is on the current Mazda3

 

[nate0123]

the Mazda3 hatch

2826 lb

 

[sillyMSP187]

Is the intercooler still a top mount?

 

[spacemonkey]

Torque is good for daily driving as it provides much needed acceleration from a stop. But I prefer revs in a pure sports car.


I mean Revs as in S2000, Ferrari 360, BMW M5, BMW M6, BMW M3, Toyota 4AGE, Mazda Renisis...anything that redlines close to 8500 rpm

Its a nice car and I love the interior...great value for its money

I assume they are targeting the GTi with 6 speed, turbocharged engine and nice refined european inspired interior.

 

[illusis]

honsetly i dont like it. im disapointed about the front wheel drive. all wheel would have made me love it. the fogs dont look good imo. the numbers are pretty decent but hey hiboost bringing it up. im sure he can just make an upgrade for the MSP3 but hey us with the regular 3's still have it good. thanks for the info on the other hand.

 

[Antoine]

Yeah...Any confirmation on the weight...Unless I missed it...It's not in the press release...? I think we're all hoping it doesn't top 3000lbs!

 

[dmitrik4]

if the regular 3s is 2826, it's possible it might come in under 3000. with the turbo, IC, bigger wheels, bigger brakes, and 6-speed, 3000 is probably a reasonable guess. AWD would have been nice, but at ~3200-3300 lbs, no thanks. even the STI is under 3200, IIRC.

now, AWD + aluminum hood + aluminum hatch...THAT would have been nice, although $$$$. if they could've come in w/ AWD at 3000 lbs, (thumb). but not happening at a reasonable price point.

 

[CHICO2003]

but will it come in orange?

 

[spacemonkey]

honsetly i dont like it. im disapointed about the front wheel drive. all wheel would have made me love it. the fogs dont look good imo. the numbers are pretty decent but hey hiboost bringing it up. im sure he can just make an upgrade for the MSP3 but hey us with the regular 3's still have it good. thanks for the info on the other hand.

why do you say that? AWD would add weight and cost to the project. Im a firm believer that weight is the ultimate downfall of a good sports car. They should be as light as possible. I.e. Lotus, Ferrari, Corvette, Panagani Zonda. With a lighter car the car will respond better and break within shorter distances.

Not only that but we are talking about Mazda AWD. Not Subaru or Audi.

Theres a big difference because the MS6 does not use a Center diff. Meaning power to the rear wheels are controled via electronic clutch. That means 50% to the front or 50% to the back or 100% to the front. there is not in betwween on the power split to the back. It can only split 50% of its power to the rear wheels. Just like back int he day with full time AWD. Nowadays cars have center diffs that are usually Vicious or Torsen that can bias more torque to the rear wheels.

Good cars liek A quatro, Subaru, Lambo, Skyline GTR, and EVO MR are Rear wheel bias. Mazda AWD is FWD bias.

MEaning almost as much as 80% power can be sent to the back on cars like a Lambo. The MS6 cant do that with a electric clutch.

What does that mean? It means a Mazda AWD system will give you great launches and maybe pull you out of a corner quicker. But going in it will behave like a FWD car and understeer like a mother if your not careful. on the straights the power would be wasted because only 50% of it can be sent to the rear wheels if it slips...but 50% is still powering the front wheels. nothing will beat AWd in damp/wet condition but off the line Torque , good driving can also be a fairly good replacement for AWD on dry conditions.

I just dont think AWD is worht the extra weight in the car. it will probally add like 400-500 lbs. Which is crap because the weight will ruin the response (more weight to move) and it will also ruin the stoping power (more weight to stop).

Hence why you have cars like RX7 vs Skyline on a road course. a 2700-2800 lbs car vs a 3500-3600 lbs car. When RE amemyia beat the 800 hp MCR Skyline GTR...Tsuchiya sugested that the Skyline go on a diet. But like Skyline/supra syndrom they rather put more power in. Tsuchiya (drift king) actually thought it was a bad move an dthey should focus on sheading weight rather then putting more power. Power does nothign for control. Sheding weight does alot for agility.

AWD takes years/generations of perfection. Look at how long it took audi to get it right. AWD is a trademark that not everyone can do. I has the opposit thought...I was disapointed that MAzda developed AWD. I mean sure it had the GTX but the AWD in the MS6 isnt significantly different from 80s AWD technology. Except instead of full time AWD it can bias its power to the front. You want it to bias its power to the back. Infact you want hte ECU to automatically bias power to the rear wheels and rely on a good diff lock map from the factory

 

[RODSCALIP5]

Im wondering when will the NA debut will be? I hope they do not change a damn thing on this car, especially the seats. I am excited about this car, at first I was disappointed about the AWD, then I woke up and realized I live in CA . I have plans already and as soon as they start taking deposits, I will be the first in line. BTW, I hope they fix the issues they were having with the MS6.

 

[CHICO2003]

why do you say that? AWD would add weight and cost to the project. Im a firm believer that weight is the ultimate downfall of a good sports car. They should be as light as possible. I.e. Lotus, Ferrari, Corvette, Panagani Zonda. With a lighter car the car will respond better and break within shorter distances.

Not only that but we are talking about Mazda AWD. Not Subaru or Audi.

Theres a big difference because the MS6 does not use a Center diff. Meaning power to the rear wheels are controled via electronic clutch. That means 50% to the front or 50% to the back or 100% to the front. there is not in betwween on the power split to the back. It can only split 50% of its power to the rear wheels. Just like back int he day with full time AWD. Nowadays cars have center diffs that are usually Vicious or Torsen that can bias more torque to the rear wheels.

Good cars liek A quatro, Subaru, Lambo, Skyline GTR, and EVO MR are Rear wheel bias. Mazda AWD is FWD bias.

MEaning almost as much as 80% power can be sent to the back on cars like a Lambo. The MS6 cant do that with a electric clutch.

What does that mean? It means a Mazda AWD system will give you great launches and maybe pull you out of a corner quicker. But going in it will behave like a FWD car and understeer like a mother if your not careful. on the straights the power would be wasted because only 50% of it can be sent to the rear wheels if it slips...but 50% is still powering the front wheels. nothing will beat AWd in damp/wet condition but off the line Torque , good driving can also be a fairly good replacement for AWD on dry conditions.

I just dont think AWD is worht the extra weight in the car. it will probally add like 400-500 lbs. Which is crap because the weight will ruin the response (more weight to move) and it will also ruin the stoping power (more weight to stop).

Hence why you have cars like RX7 vs Skyline on a road course. a 2700-2800 lbs car vs a 3500-3600 lbs car. When RE amemyia beat the 800 hp MCR Skyline GTR...Tsuchiya sugested that the Skyline go on a diet. But like Skyline/supra syndrom they rather put more power in. Tsuchiya (drift king) actually thought it was a bad move an dthey should focus on sheading weight rather then putting more power. Power does nothign for control. Sheding weight does alot for agility.

AWD takes years/generations of perfection. Look at how long it took audi to get it right. AWD is a trademark that not everyone can do. I has the opposit thought...I was disapointed that MAzda developed AWD. I mean sure it had the GTX but the AWD in the MS6 isnt significantly different from 80s AWD technology. Except instead of full time AWD it can bias its power to the front. You want it to bias its power to the back. Infact you want hte ECU to automatically bias power to the rear wheels and rely on a good diff lock map from the factory

(deadhorse Ok ok!!! All us awd fans need to just give up already. Going in, I too was dissapointed with it being fwd. After hearing the message above 8 million times, I now realize that Mazda's awd system sucks and that it wouldn't be a good fit for this car. (though, is 280 lb/ft tq to the front wheels a good fit either? it'll be a miracle if this thing doesn't also come with a $hitload of torque steer.

I guess the bottom line is... in this price range, if you want a car with awd, your best bet is to just get a WRX.

 

[CHICO2003]

Im wondering when will the NA debut will be? I hopw they do not change a damn thing on this car, especially the seats. I am excited about this car, at first I was disappointed about the AWD, then I woke up and realized I live in CA . I have plans already and as soon as they start taking deposits, I will be the first in line. BTW, I hope they fix the issues they were having with the MS6.

as pointless as awd may be in california, fwd is equally (if not more) pointless. How anyone who's into performance cars and lives in an area that doesn't see any snow would pass on a RWD car is beyond me. While I realize the sport compact segment isn't exactly loade with RWD offerings, for a little more ching, you can get an RX-8 or even a 350z.

 

[InFeXIoN]

I talked to a person at mazda the other day, and the reason they didnt go with awd is because its to short for the drivetrain, that they use.

 

[spacemonkey]

It will come with a torque limiter like the SRT-4. And like our cars in 1st gear. I would think a good suspention would be very important in keeping that power down. Plus good tires and diff.

Gearing dosnt look too bad for 280 lbs of torque. But hell yeah that is alot of torque for a 2800 lbs car. its nearly 10% of the car's weight. I woudl rather drive carefully then dump the clutch with the gas pedal to the floor.

doesnt really matter to me because you barely stop and go in road racing...and you dont need a hard launch either. In drag its a different story. Hopefully the tranny will be kind to slicks.

ironic...torque in a Mazda?

 

[spacemonkey]

I talked to a person at mazda the other day, and the reason they didnt go with awd is because its to short for the drivetrain, that they use.

That and besides the cost as noted before. FWD saves gas, cheaper to make and instal, and economical. BS on the drive train...there are cars with shorter wheel base that are AWD. the chasis itself might not be fit for a driveshaft (no driveshaft tunnel) and rear suspention design might not allow for a rear diff. Which is probally what they meant. R&D is a cost they dont want to pay or put a rear diff and DS....if they want to fit this around 21-22K . It probally could be done but at a cost.

This isnt focused on 35 year old wall street type person...thats the MS6 They are focusing on highschoolers and college kids. people in their 20s.

 

[eting_pro5]

Im wondering when will the NA debut will be? I hope they do not change a damn thing on this car, especially the seats. I am excited about this car, at first I was disappointed about the AWD, then I woke up and realized I live in CA . I have plans already and as soon as they start taking deposits, I will be the first in line. BTW, I hope they fix the issues they were having with the MS6.

I'm guessing New York Auto Show. April 13-26

 

[RODSCALIP5]

as pointless as awd may be in california, fwd is equally (if not more) pointless. How anyone who's into performance cars and lives in an area that doesn't see any snow would pass on a RWD car is beyond me. While I realize the sport compact segment isn't exactly loade with RWD offerings, for a little more ching, you can get an RX-8 or even a 350z.

Or a Mazda Kabura . The RX8 and 350 are nice cars, but some of us need the 4 doors or 5 doors(MS3). I would still have my P5 had it come with a little more zoom.