gas prices

[mrjoshyman]

You have way to much faith in private companies. Maximizing profits at the expense of the economy isn't prudent imo. Developing new technologies will encourage a more competitive energy market rather than the monopoly the oil companies have now. Competition is another big factor that keep prices in check. Free is great but there is such a thing as too much freedom and another thing called greed. Being free to buy politians to further ones agenda/profits is bad. No good can come from greed. Also, there is proof in the form of internal memos that showed some companies were holding back refining to control prices. Do you really think the oil companies care about the average joe? No, they'll do whatever they can to keep prices high even if it means shutting down or delaying production. The market will only balance itself out when the companies controlling it feels that it should.

I was focusing on the automakers, which will attempt to satisfy the demand -- and if consumers r demanding more fuel efficient vehicles then thats what they will get, b/c ne firm that fails to catch up with the times will surely fail.

There is the relatively common belief that big business (especially oil) has the politicians in their pockets, and I am not going to deny the fact that lobbying can certainly sway a politicians decision. Although the extent to which oil is able to buy decisions is questionable. There might be some sway, although if the voting record of politicians were so outrageous, then as informed voters these politicians wouldn't get re-elected. Remember -- the goal of most politician's is to stay in office, and you can't do that if you're not appeasing your voters.


In regards to the oil companies, while there are many skeptics that say the oil companies are controlling oil prices etc. This is rather unlikely primarily due to the number of firms involved in such collusion. Relatively simply microeconomic analysis of such a situation shows that it is in the best interest of any colluding firm to break any "pact" to control supply in order to win a greater market majority and also increase individual profits.

 

[Donas64]

As for the guy that said he should be free to drive whatever the heck he wants. Well if you think taking a bigger share of the pie to get from point A to B is ok than you should be willing to pay for that priveledge as well to even things out. Why should I have to pay for it?

This is all just my opinion/observations.

That would be me. They do pay for that privilege. They pay for it when they purchase the vehicle. They pay for it when they fill up their behemoth at the pump. And when they tire of paying for it, they will purchase something more efficient. You don't pay for anything. If you want to make someone pay for something, go ask for money from China and India. I'm not trying to be combative but no one's asking you to pay for anything. You pay for welfare, you pay for illegal immigration, you pay the taxes on the gas to the govt. which does nothing to get it. You don't pay for someone else's car. They do. I know I pay for mine. And my gas too.

 

[Betelgeuse]

That would be me. They do pay for that privilege. They pay for it when they purchase the vehicle. They pay for it when they fill up their behemoth at the pump. And when they tire of paying for it, they will purchase something more efficient. You don't pay for anything. If you want to make someone pay for something, go ask for money from China and India. I'm not trying to be combative but no one's asking you to pay for anything. You pay for welfare, you pay for illegal immigration, you pay the taxes on the gas to the govt. which does nothing to get it. You don't pay for someone else's car. They do. I know I pay for mine. And my gas too.

High demand and 'dwindling' supplies are an excuse for the speculators and oil companies to cause a spike in gas prices. It takes more gas for your behemoth to get from point A to B. More gas = higher demand = higher gas prices. I end up paying higher prices because millions like you chose to drive gas guzzlers. Yeah you pay the higher price too but why should I? Why shouldn't this burden fall harder on your shoulders? Hence the reason the tax idea for gas guzzlers was brought up.

 

[D_Roc7822]

I completely agree with you 100%.. gas is never gonna be 2.00 a gal or anywhere near that. I remember back in the day, when gas was 1.99 and everyone thought that was high. What I wouldnt give to pay 1.99 for gas nowadays lol. What I dont understand is why has the price increased so much here recently... like the last 3 or so months. I mean before gas would go up... then go down a lil bit... then go up to a new higher price... and then go back down a lil bit and the cycle would keep going. Now.. it goes down 2-3 cents a gal.. and then flies up 15 cents a gal in a day or two. Is demand really just now making it go up and up and up each day? Is demand really making oil/gas go up more than a 1.00 in just over a year? Cause last year youd be paying 2.50 for premium goodness... now your lucky if you can find it for 3.50 for 87 octane. Maybe Im just out of the loop.

So last night around 245am.. Im leaving walmart (best time to go by the way) and heading home. I pass a good 2-3 gas stations on my way home and see gas has gone up from the 3.81 that it was.. to 3.98 a gal. Thinking to myself.. ok well at least it wont go up any higher for a lil bit (2-3 days) but to my surprise, what happens? Stocks rebound a lil bit.. and oil actually goes down a lil bit.. but hmm now the price is 4.15 a gal for 87 oct. This is really getting out of hand. It pretty much went up a good .30 cents a gal in not even a 24 hour period and its not even really summer yet? So expect to be paying around 6-6.50 a gal by the summer time folks. And its not like I live in a big city or anything like that. If I lived in chicago.. then I might be able to see. But I live in a decently average town with 75,000 people. I guess I just dont get it.

 

[mrjoshyman]

High demand and 'dwindling' supplies are an excuse for the speculators and oil companies to cause a spike in gas prices. It takes more gas for your behemoth to get from point A to B. More gas = higher demand = higher gas prices. I end up paying higher prices because millions like you chose to drive gas guzzlers. Yeah you pay the higher price too but why should I? Why shouldn't this burden fall harder on your shoulders? Hence the reason the tax idea for gas guzzlers was brought up.

High demand and limited & falling supplies are not an excuse -- it's called market equilibrium....basic economics. If demand is rising and supplies are unable to increase at the same rate, well then naturally we will see an increase in price.

Firstly the majority of the high demand over the past 2 yrs where we've seen the price of crude significantly increase is not as a result of a sudden jump in the SUV sales -- they have been steadily increasing over the past decade. But what has picked up is the fossil fuel usage in developing nations such as China and India.

In terms of supply issues, we know that crude is a finite resource and there are limitations to how much they can extract from the ground....we can't make it out of thin air -- it takes quite a while for crude to be extracted, transported, refined, and end up in our gas tanks.

So don't act as though people with SUVs are the sole cause of higher gas prices -- I'm not denying that they contribute to the issue -- but honestly this is a global situation....let's not lose perspective.

 

[Betelgeuse]

High demand and limited & falling supplies are not an excuse -- it's called market equilibrium....basic economics. If demand is rising and supplies are unable to increase at the same rate, well then naturally we will see an increase in price.

Firstly the majority of the high demand over the past 2 yrs where we've seen the price of crude significantly increase is not as a result of a sudden jump in the SUV sales -- they have been steadily increasing over the past decade. But what has picked up is the fossil fuel usage in developing nations such as China and India.

In terms of supply issues, we know that crude is a finite resource and there are limitations to how much they can extract from the ground....we can't make it out of thin air -- it takes quite a while for crude to be extracted, transported, refined, and end up in our gas tanks.



So don't act as though people with SUVs are the sole cause of higher gas prices -- I'm not denying that they contribute to the issue -- but honestly this is a global situation....let's not lose perspective.

It's already been shown that crude prices and gas prices are not always in step so we can't blame everything on the price of oil. Notice I put the word dwindling in quotes. I'm glad you admitted that SUVs do contribute to the issue. I also never said they were the sole cause but we have to tackle that issue as well.

 

[Donas64]

High demand and 'dwindling' supplies are an excuse for the speculators and oil companies to cause a spike in gas prices. It takes more gas for your behemoth to get from point A to B. More gas = higher demand = higher gas prices. I end up paying higher prices because millions like you chose to drive gas guzzlers. Yeah you pay the higher price too but why should I? Why shouldn't this burden fall harder on your shoulders? Hence the reason the tax idea for gas guzzlers was brought up.

...uuuuummm..... I drive a Protege5 and My Wife drives a Protege sedan so I'm not sure how you come up with driving gad guzzlers. I probably get better MPG than you do and certainly would if you got an MS3.

I'm simply defending the rights of people to purchase the vehicles they wish to within the limit of the law (no tanks on a public road etc)

As I stated earlier, I think its silly to drive a massive SUV filled to 1/10ths capacity as a daily driver. But at the same token, its also silly to drive a Dodge viper that can get abysmal gas mileage.

If they ban the SUV, whats to stop them from banning the viper, or heck the Mazda RX-8 because that thing drinks like an SUV.

I'm saying that the markets will work and if the overwhelming demand is for smaller cars or better fuel economy, the companies that want to make money and stay in business will adapt. Others will not.

Those that can afford gas guzzling SUVS/Sportscars/Trucks/Supercars will buy them, those that can't, won't or will sell them and downgrade to something that better suits their needs.

I also agree with the poster that stated its more than just people driving SUV's as so many want to say. It's a part of it but not as big a part as you'd imagine.

 

[Donas64]

High demand and limited & falling supplies are not an excuse -- it's called market equilibrium....basic economics. If demand is rising and supplies are unable to increase at the same rate, well then naturally we will see an increase in price.

Firstly the majority of the high demand over the past 2 yrs where we've seen the price of crude significantly increase is not as a result of a sudden jump in the SUV sales -- they have been steadily increasing over the past decade. But what has picked up is the fossil fuel usage in developing nations such as China and India.

In terms of supply issues, we know that crude is a finite resource and there are limitations to how much they can extract from the ground....we can't make it out of thin air -- it takes quite a while for crude to be extracted, transported, refined, and end up in our gas tanks.

So don't act as though people with SUVs are the sole cause of higher gas prices -- I'm not denying that they contribute to the issue -- but honestly this is a global situation....let's not lose perspective.

Finally someone is making some sense. Perspective indeed. (first)

 

[happy and angry]

While on the surface your comment makes sense. It only really makes sense if you into communism/socialism.

What in the hells is wrong with you? How is communism/socialism even relevant to this discussion? Your should be Tin Foil Hat Man.

 

[happy and angry]

High demand and limited & falling supplies are not an excuse -- it's called market equilibrium....basic economics. If demand is rising and supplies are unable to increase at the same rate, well then naturally we will see an increase in price.

Firstly the majority of the high demand over the past 2 yrs where we've seen the price of crude significantly increase is not as a result of a sudden jump in the SUV sales -- they have been steadily increasing over the past decade. But what has picked up is the fossil fuel usage in developing nations such as China and India.

In terms of supply issues, we know that crude is a finite resource and there are limitations to how much they can extract from the ground....we can't make it out of thin air -- it takes quite a while for crude to be extracted, transported, refined, and end up in our gas tanks.

So don't act as though people with SUVs are the sole cause of higher gas prices -- I'm not denying that they contribute to the issue -- but honestly this is a global situation....let's not lose perspective.

There is lots involved in the rising price of gas. Supply and demand are parts of it, refining and reserve capacity are parts of it, turmoil and conflict in oil producing nations is part of it, ridiculous speculation as to the price of oil is part of it.

There has been some talk of the doubling of price of a barrel of oil over the last year or so being a bubble that will eventually break. I'm not too concerned over the price of oil because it can't keep rising this way - if it does the price of oil will drive away demand and it'll drop back down to reasonable levels again, just like in the 80's. It'll be a rough year or two, but it's not the end of the world.

 

[happy and angry]

It will never happen but we should form a food cartel. We are in fact the greatest producer of food. We should tie the price of food items to the price of oil for those countries in the oil cartel. Let them eat oil.

Yes, because you need oil in the same way that people need food, you nut job.

 

[Donas64]

What in the hells is wrong with you? How is communism/socialism even relevant to this discussion? Your should be Tin Foil Hat Man.

Punish the rich. Govt should mandate what we can drive and should punish those who don't meet their standards (hence why Porsche is considering a suit against the EU over overly harsh emissions standards http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/porsche-to-sue-eu-over-naive-co2-standards/) Profit is bad. Everyone should be equal.

I'm not calling him a communist or socialist. I'm just saying there are undertones of that mentality in his statements.

If someone wants to dive a prius and can afford it, they should. If someone wants to drive an escalade and can afford the gas, go for it, if someone wants to buy a Bugatti Veyron and can afford the upkeep, good for them.

The price of gas is tied more to emerging economies and industry costs than some person misusing their SUV. Personally, I would love to see better fuel economy standards for SUV's. But I know that would also affect the supercars I love so much. Eventually (and we're already seeing this as small car sales are booming while SUV sales flounder, the people and markets will adjust and the automakers will cater to the needs of the consumer (better hybrid tech, Electric vehicles ala tesla roadster, more diesel vehicles such as the audi R10 TDI and mercedes BlueTec and VW TDI's and eventually hydrogen ala Honda FCX clarity). The govt didn't create any of these technologies. They came about as answers to the demands of the market.

When govt gets too involved, it only screws things up more.

And just so you know. I don't travel anywhere without my tinfoil hat. It keeps the alien mind control rays at bay.

 

[Donas64]

Yes, because you need oil in the same way that people need food, you nut job.

Dude, you need to chill with the personal attacks and get a grip. You're acting like a 2yr old.

 

[mrjoshyman]

There is lots involved in the rising price of gas. Supply and demand are parts of it, refining and reserve capacity are parts of it, turmoil and conflict in oil producing nations is part of it, ridiculous speculation as to the price of oil is part of it.

There has been some talk of the doubling of price of a barrel of oil over the last year or so being a bubble that will eventually break. I'm not too concerned over the price of oil because it can't keep rising this way - if it does the price of oil will drive away demand and it'll drop back down to reasonable levels again, just like in the 80's. It'll be a rough year or two, but it's not the end of the world.

I agree that there is a lot involved in determining the price of gas, my S/D comment was in regard to a previous comment suggesting that S/D issues are blown out of proportion.

In terms of the oil bubble bursting, I sure hope so for every1's wallets sake although I honestly do not think we will be below $120/barrel of crude unless there are significant changes ie: significant drop in demand, or new and easily accessible oil reserves are discovered.

The problem with the argument that rising prices will drive down demand is that the extent to which quantity demanded will decrease as a result of increased prices is minimal -- this is due to the fact that oil is a necessity for many industries and for the cars we drive. People aren't going to stop driving to work in reaction to high gas prices...

 

[Donas64]

I agree that there is a lot involved in determining the price of gas, my S/D comment was in regard to a previous comment suggesting that S/D issues are blown out of proportion.

In terms of the oil bubble bursting, I sure hope so for every1's wallets sake although I honestly do not think we will be below $120/barrel of crude unless there are significant changes ie: significant drop in demand, or new and easily accessible oil reserves are discovered.

The problem with the argument that rising prices will drive down demand is that the extent to which quantity demanded will decrease as a result of increased prices is minimal -- this is due to the fact that oil is a necessity for many industries and for the cars we drive. People aren't going to stop driving to work in reaction to high gas prices...

I agree, they won't stop driving to work. But they will start demanding far more fuel efficient vehicles and reliable sustainable alternative fuels. And the markets will be very unkind to any automaker that doesn't get with the program.

Also, I think you'll see more pressure for America to increase it's refining capabilities and even (as a short term solution) increase our production.

I think everyone is aware that oil won't be around forever and the real money will go to whoever has the next big breakthrough. Even the oil companies realize that they will have to adapt to a new market in the future.

 

[happy and angry]

Punish the rich. Govt should mandate what we can drive and should punish those who don't meet their standards (hence why Porsche is considering a suit against the EU over overly harsh emissions standards http://www.motorauthority.com/news/industry/porsche-to-sue-eu-over-naive-co2-standards/) Profit is bad. Everyone should be equal.

I have rarely found it possible to have reasonable discourse with anyone who breaks out the words "communist" or "socialist" in an argument and thinks it is making a point. It's sort of like Goodwin's Law.

 

[mrjoshyman]

I agree, they won't stop driving to work. But they will start demanding far more fuel efficient vehicles and reliable sustainable alternative fuels. And the markets will be very unkind to any automaker that doesn't get with the program.

Also, I think you'll see more pressure for America to increase it's refining capabilities and even (as a short term solution) increase our production.

I think everyone is aware that oil won't be around forever and the real money will go to whoever has the next big breakthrough. Even the oil companies realize that they will have to adapt to a new market in the future.

(iagree) (i mentioned the bit about demanding more fuel efficient vehicles in an earlier post)

 

[zoomzone]

Nobody seems to have touched on the fact that a large part of the increase in fuel cost is the falling value of our dollar. Oil is sold on a global marketplace, so when our currency has less buying power, it takes more cash to purchase it. Fuel prices are rising in Europe, but not as drastically because the Euro buys more than it used to.

With our financial markets, credit "crisis", lack of manufacturing, lack of foresight on energy markets, exorbitant executive salaries (read: larger gap for rich and poor), and failed political leadership, we are collectively screwing ourselves.

 

[MS3077]

(butthump)(jerkit)(blowjob)(spank)(boobs)(bj)

 

[08cosmic3]

I have rarely found it possible to have reasonable discourse with anyone who breaks out the words "communist" or "socialist" in an argument and thinks it is making a point. It's sort of like Goodwin's Law.

Governments that have state owned (socialism) industries are the worst poluters on the planet. China and India are perfect examples.

Free markets enterprise evolved long before there were governments, People traded goods. Socialism is a contrived system with the desired affect being to control people. It does not bring up the poor it lowers us all and makes us all poor.

Yesterday Maxine Waters, congress woman from California, said she was in favor of government takeover of the oil industry. That is Socialism.