Seth and SpaR/Ticus
Member
I don't see a problem with spending the same amount on a car that has...what... 75 more ponies?
Forget my MP3...I am getting that new ST-4 Neon!
- Thread starter NorCal_MP3
- Start date
I don't see a problem with spending the same amount on a car that has...what... 75 more ponies?
I personally don't give a rats ass about how good a damn neon (lowest model to highest) preforms against an mp3 or any protege model. Because any self respecting compact owner will not say "stock performance is good enough for me" But looks on the other hand, the poor neon was beat with the ugly stick one to many times, and I haven't seen a body kit for our Quazimoto brother that makes it look any better. Yes, I do admit that the EX protege model and down are somewhat lacking in luster. But with a little makeover it looks better than any other $20K car out there. Don't think I'm just prejiduce against Neons though I also thing the new Civic designers should be b**** slapped for the crap they squatted out this year.
Hey I will be in Seattle for HIN, see ya there 
I lived there for a year and a half in high school and got to say the worst drivers live in Seattle. Anyway, I like the fact you can give your 2 cents w/o being a dick and calling it a POS or whatever. I disagree but that is my opinion 
Its all good!
What do you think about that CTR in europe? Other than the dumb looking shifter it is ok.
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: Buster ]
I lived there for a year and a half in high school and got to say the worst drivers live in Seattle. Anyway, I like the fact you can give your 2 cents w/o being a dick and calling it a POS or whatever. I disagree but that is my opinion Its all good!
What do you think about that CTR in europe? Other than the dumb looking shifter it is ok.
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: Buster ]
Ummm, Dodge vs. Mazda. I own a 2000 Durango SLT AND a 2001 Mazda MP3. I have had (and still do have) issues with both vehicles.
The Dodge is a lovely Silly Useless Vehicle (isn't that what SUV means?). It sits outside right now with 26,500 on the odo. The only real continuing problem is with the stupid real-wheel ABS. It tends to free wheel the brakes in a hard stop to the point of making the front discs do ALL the work. It has been bad to the dealer a bunch of times. (I just started going to a different dealer, so we'll see.)
The MP3 is a wonderful car. I get people staring at it, asking where can they get one and have challenges at stop lights and highways all the time. (Anybody ever run a Ford Probe? I did Saturday night on Long Island and several redline shifts later left him in the taillights.)
However, the problem with the clutch (see the thread elsewhere) is ruining the car for me and really bothers me because it can't be doing the plate any good. I figure they may jerk us all around unless it fails out of warranty. The other issue is the noises out of the back. I don't believe the response I got from my dealer - "It's a performance car, you'll get that."! I hope that the replacement bushings fix it. The two problems make the car seem like it has 200,000 miles on it, not 13,800.
I have driven Neons (wow, did you think I'd EVER get back on the subject?) and the newer ones are decent. The car is a winner in a number of classes of SCCA and does well in Auto-X. I think that any car line has issues. Mass-production of a vehicle leads to that. Good ones and bad ones come down the line.
The Neon is kinda the modern-day Plymouth Road Runner, a basic car that can be made into something better cheaply. Remember the Road Runner came with bench seats and dog dish hubcaps. It had a kick-ass motor and drivetrain, though.
As for the rent-a-car issue, so what? The Neon (and the Protege) are cheap, reliable cars in stock trim and hold up well to the abuse afforded rental boxes. That actually says something about the car (and the fact that the car companies own at least part of the various rental companies).
#36/1500
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: BondoBob ]
The Dodge is a lovely Silly Useless Vehicle (isn't that what SUV means?). It sits outside right now with 26,500 on the odo. The only real continuing problem is with the stupid real-wheel ABS. It tends to free wheel the brakes in a hard stop to the point of making the front discs do ALL the work. It has been bad to the dealer a bunch of times. (I just started going to a different dealer, so we'll see.)
The MP3 is a wonderful car. I get people staring at it, asking where can they get one and have challenges at stop lights and highways all the time. (Anybody ever run a Ford Probe? I did Saturday night on Long Island and several redline shifts later left him in the taillights.)
However, the problem with the clutch (see the thread elsewhere) is ruining the car for me and really bothers me because it can't be doing the plate any good. I figure they may jerk us all around unless it fails out of warranty. The other issue is the noises out of the back. I don't believe the response I got from my dealer - "It's a performance car, you'll get that."! I hope that the replacement bushings fix it. The two problems make the car seem like it has 200,000 miles on it, not 13,800.
I have driven Neons (wow, did you think I'd EVER get back on the subject?) and the newer ones are decent. The car is a winner in a number of classes of SCCA and does well in Auto-X. I think that any car line has issues. Mass-production of a vehicle leads to that. Good ones and bad ones come down the line.
The Neon is kinda the modern-day Plymouth Road Runner, a basic car that can be made into something better cheaply. Remember the Road Runner came with bench seats and dog dish hubcaps. It had a kick-ass motor and drivetrain, though.
As for the rent-a-car issue, so what? The Neon (and the Protege) are cheap, reliable cars in stock trim and hold up well to the abuse afforded rental boxes. That actually says something about the car (and the fact that the car companies own at least part of the various rental companies).
#36/1500
[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: BondoBob ]
Hey, not all dodges are crap...
-my dad has a '98 RAM 2500 Cummins turbo diesel. That thing is a beast.
-the viper is the fasest accelerating production car on the market (or at least, it was a few years back) and it's only like $65K.
Anyway, so the new neon is a cheap, powerful little car...GOOD. That means that there's more competiton for car manufacturers in the $15-$20K range. More competiton is better for the consumer. That may result in better proteges for the same price in the future. I'd still take my mp3 over a neon, just because I like it better. I know neons have issues, but our cars do too. Once I get my mp3 turbo'ed and a few mods done to it, i'll be content.
-my dad has a '98 RAM 2500 Cummins turbo diesel. That thing is a beast.
-the viper is the fasest accelerating production car on the market (or at least, it was a few years back) and it's only like $65K.
Anyway, so the new neon is a cheap, powerful little car...GOOD. That means that there's more competiton for car manufacturers in the $15-$20K range. More competiton is better for the consumer. That may result in better proteges for the same price in the future. I'd still take my mp3 over a neon, just because I like it better. I know neons have issues, but our cars do too. Once I get my mp3 turbo'ed and a few mods done to it, i'll be content.
Seth and SpaR/Ticus
Member
Glad to see some people can agree on some sutff.....I've raced Probes before, GT's and whatever the lower model is...they're dogs. They're underpowered and overweight.
C
cougfan99
Sometimes the best way to start conversation is to be controversial. If Neons work for you, then more power to you (no pun intended). These cars all get thrashed anyway,so I'm sure they'll all be pretty much the same for durability. But you have to admit that the brand name Dodge carries a stigma with it, and it's not a good one.
SanFran is correct again. But it isn't just dodge, even though dodge it the worst of the american three. Proteges ARE of higher quality. Nearly every test, including mine, comments on neons lack of build quality. Just as every mp3 test comments on lack of power. I would have to say it is better/easier/cheaper to add ponies rather than build quality. Dodge fans don't gasp in disbelief, quality issues with neons have always been there. You just have to listen. BUSTER knows the Car and Driver article that compared the neon RT and MP3. Don't you Buster.
Later guys, have fun
Later guys, have fun
Seth and SpaR/Ticus
Member
It does, unfortunately, but I think it's a thing of the past. Too bad peopel can't get over it. Working in a delaership which has two of the big three (and the third is across the street), I have to say that the problems that come in between Dodge and Ford are worse on the Ford side. As for GM's, besides they're Corvettes, I don't think they've done anything good lately. I don't want to say Dodge looks the best out of all of them now, but they're quality has much improved. And I'll still stand by my word that through 195,000 miles of Neons (and counting), I've had no problems with build quality, besides the HG, which DC covered.
i think its really funny arguing over a neon haha its such an ugly car to start i dont care how fast it is i would never pay that much money for such an ugly car. And also i would never buy another dodge in my life or let anyone i know buy one. i had a 97 dakota 4x4 fully loaded before i got my mp3 it was such a piece of s*** i had to put 1700 into the transmision just to sell it and it only ahd 65,00 miles on it, it had so many problems from the brakes,suspension, transmision (multiple times) not to mention the worst gas milage ever. also i know a girl who owns a 98 neon and has been stranded on the side of the road numerous times.
Neon hahahahahhahahahaha
haha its such an ugly car to start i dont care how fast it is i would never pay that much money for such an ugly car. And also i would never buy another dodge in my life or let anyone i know buy one. i had a 97 dakota 4x4 fully loaded before i got my mp3 it was such a piece of s*** i had to put 1700 into the transmision just to sell it and it only ahd 65,00 miles on it, it had so many problems from the brakes,suspension, transmision (multiple times) not to mention the worst gas milage ever. also i know a girl who owns a 98 neon and has been stranded on the side of the road numerous times.Neon hahahahahhahahahaha
C
cougfan99
Lets be honest, before I bought my MP3 I thought it was a total joke. Who buys Mazdas anyway? I was Prelude or nothing at all. But I gave it a fair chance and liked it better. Since I haven't driven a ST-4(is that the suped up Neon?) I can't say if it's a good car or not. But until I do I'll assume it's a worthy competitor. As should the rest of us who haven't given it a fair chance.
If you really want quality don't buy any of the cars mentioned. Go see your local BMW dealer instead. None of these little econo-boxes is built to any kind of exacting standard that leaves them flawless. They've all got their problems. Even the BMW will have problems, but the real test is whether the service you recieve after the sale will be good enough to jump right on any problem and get it resolved quickly and thoroughly. Both Mazda and Dodge fail in this respect. This is my first Mazda and I know I will not ever buy a new one again. Why? I don't like the service. They tell me that there's nothing wrong with a grinding shifter and that squeking shocks and clutch pedals are normal for a car like this. I say fine, I will maintain my car impeccably and drive the grindy transmission till the thing falls out THEN I'll take it to them so f'd up they'll have no way to say anything about it is normal! BMW would have slapped in a brand new tranny by now, but the problem probably never would have existed in the first place.
I have driven several Dodge Neons and ddidn't notice any apparent flaws with the vehicles at all. Not that I think that car looks as good as ours. I might buy a Miata to road race. But I will be doing all of the repairs and maintenance on that myself as it will be old and without a warranty. My next car will be a BMW(3 series). Don't get me wrong, I think my car is great, I just don't like being told that mechanical problems are normal. Yeah, I know BMW's are far more expensive than Mazdas and Dodges but you get what you pay for. If you want a car that comes in pristine condition, has unmatched performance, quality, and service you have to pay for it.
I have driven several Dodge Neons and ddidn't notice any apparent flaws with the vehicles at all. Not that I think that car looks as good as ours. I might buy a Miata to road race. But I will be doing all of the repairs and maintenance on that myself as it will be old and without a warranty. My next car will be a BMW(3 series). Don't get me wrong, I think my car is great, I just don't like being told that mechanical problems are normal. Yeah, I know BMW's are far more expensive than Mazdas and Dodges but you get what you pay for. If you want a car that comes in pristine condition, has unmatched performance, quality, and service you have to pay for it.
