Ethanol Gaining Support

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Ethanol gaining support
Automakers sign on, but more use will take time, cash, familiarity
Sunday, February 19, 2006
By BRIAN LAWSON
The Huntsville Times
http://www.al.com/business/huntsvilletimes

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HUNTSVILLE, Alabama - Ford, General Motors and the president of the United States are all supporting ethanol as an alternative fuel source - which gives the renewable fuel some powerful friends.

But there's an 800-pound gorilla of an oil industry that has its own plans, which do not include going away. And gasoline has a 100-year head start.

Currently, there are some 170,000 gas stations in the United States, according to Fortune magazine, and fewer than 600 stations that sell E85, the 85 percent ethanol/15 percent gas mix that American automakers are now touting. There are no E85 stations now selling the fuel in Alabama.

Mark Hall, a Madison County extension agent and advocate of alternative fuels, summed up the dilemma faced by those who want to see ethanol move from a largely Midwestern fuel source to a U.S.-wide option.

"If the demand is there, the supply will be there," Hall said. "But how do you get demand without supply?"

Ethanol fuel is derived from corn, sugar cane and other natural materials. It has long been a darling of Midwest farmers and their homestate politicians and distrusted in other circles for its large government subsidies and production costs.

Dr. David Bransby, an Auburn University professor and recognized expert on energy and bioenergy, said there are a number of technologies the federal government has helped fund to the "pilot stage" which could help convert materials such as Alabama wood to fuel. But Bransby said those approaches don't yet have enough support from government or private industry - leery of the size of the investment - to reach full commercial potential.

"I've been in Alabama nearly 20 years and for goodness sake, this country put people on the moon almost 40 years ago," Bransby said. "That's way more difficult than getting ethanol from biological material."

There is a quiet effort under way to build a 50 million-gallon a year, $80 million ethanol production facility in the Tennessee Valley. Dennis Bragg, a third-generation Madison County farmer, said the effort is still in the project development stage, but the private investors hope to break ground within a year.

"For years we've all said 'We need to become energy independent,' but not one dollar was spent towards it," Bragg said. "Now we're in an era where money and effort are being put towards doing that.

"We're at the stage of when Thomas Jefferson and our forefathers sat around and discussed things before independence."

The 95 operating ethanol plants in the United States, nearly all in the Midwest, produce about 3.5 billion gallons of ethanol a year, according to the Maryland-based Clean Fuels Development Coalition. An energy bill passed last year by Congress requires refiners to produce a growing percentage of renewable fuels annually, as part of the total U.S. fuel supply. For 2006, the federal mandate requires 4 billion gallons of renewable fuels and increases annually to 7.5 billion gallons by 2012.

Bragg said even at full production, 50 million gallons of ethanol a year would only represent about 2 percent of the gasoline consumed in Alabama annually.

Bragg said consumers should consider the alternative fuels question as an issue of independence and dollars staying within the United States, rather than only through price at the pump. He said U.S. dependency on foreign oil finds its way into areas such as negotiations with Iran, and the current consumer market position leaves the government with less ability to maneuver.

Jim Johnson, general manager of Bill Heard Chevrolet, said GM's push to raise consumer awareness of E85 vehicles and alternative fuels is the best news he's heard for the worldwide auto industry in "years and years.

2006 Chevrolet Impala / Monte Carlo w/FlexFuel 3.5L V6
Model Number: 1WB19
Engine: 3.5L LZE
Horsepower: (hp @ rpm) 210 @ 5800
Torque: (lb-ft @ rpm) 220 @ 2800
Fuel capacity (gallons) 17.5
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"I think it's a matter of familiarity and access," Johnson said. "Face it, everybody's aware we need to do something about our environment. Initially, if we got 100 E85s, I don't think we'd sell out in a week. But the more people find out about it, no doubt in my mind that will happen."

Johnson likens it to the awareness about recycling, saying it's become such an obvious route to take that there's a stigma attached if you're not participating.

Extension agent Hall said it will come down to economics, to finding a distribution system that provides motorists with easy access to E85.

"Most gas stations have 3 grades, if they've got tanks; you could take the middle grade of gas out and make that pump E85, if they had the demand."

Full, Uncut Article Here: http://www.al.com/business/huntsvil...4560.xml&coll=1

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Would be nice if they actually started selling the stuff in more places. I'd run it. I think there are only like 3 or 5 stations in all of MD....
 
does it have any effect on power?? Like, for example, in the MSP... you gotta use 91 octane... i prefer using 93.... anyone know if this is safe for that??
 
E85 burns differently from regular gasoline. You don't want to run a gasline vehicle soley on E85.

I'd love to redo my fuel system, get a standalone and run E85 tho...
 
how does a E85 engine work different from a regular petrol engine?
 
ZoomZoomH said:
isn't ethanol the fuel they run in F1.... burns a 'colorless' flame or something...

Yes, ethanol burns clear. The only way to see that it is burning is by the shimmering heat waves that come off the flame.

R
 
There were a few stations here in Ottawa that were selling Ethanol blend a while back. The one closes to my house closed down though. I used their ethanol-blend (not sure what the split was) several times in the MSP. Didn't notice any huge performance difference that I can think of, although I didn't run it exclusively for several successive tanks to see.

R
 
Figures there is none of these stations in one of the corn states, Ohio. Damn this state needs to get its head out of its ass.
 
Rogue Pro5 said:
how does a E85 engine work different from a regular petrol engine?

the tuning is just different. using hard anodized or stainless steel for all fuel lines/tank/rail/pump etc is needed though due to ethanol being corrrosive.

you can junkyard some of the parts, as some older cars have E85 compatible fuel pumps and fuel pressure regulators. probably other parts aswell.
 
I think its a good idea ecomonical(sp) to grow corn. Look at all the farmers that are out of work.
 
Wow, this makes me remember the movie "On Dealdy Ground" with Steven Segal and Joan Chen. That made me realize that the greedy oil companies will do what they can to keep business as usual.
 
melicha8 said:
octane rating?
higher than sheer gasoline, gallon for gallon

Actually 105 for E85, but it doesn't have the same power per gallon that sheer gasoline does so you use more of it.
 
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I've been using Husky 94 octane and the results are noticeable compared with just 91. The car runs much more smoothly and has more power. The ony drawback is that you burn it more quickly giving you slightly less fuel mileage. The 94 is a 10% ethanol blend.
 
Stormtrooper77 said:
I've been using Husky 94 octane and the results are noticeable compared with just 91. The car runs much more smoothly and has more power. The ony drawback is that you burn it more quickly giving you slightly less fuel mileage. The 94 is a 10% ethanol blend.
Most of the gas stations I go to (mainly Shell and Sunoco) are running up to 10% ethanol already and have been for quite some time.
 
dbzeag said:
higher than sheer gasoline, gallon for gallon

Actually 105 for E85, but it doesn't have the same power per gallon that sheer gasoline does so you use more of it.

I had to fill up once leaving work in Conneticut which requires all gas to be 10% EtOH. My engine had lost power and my gas milage sucked. I only got 22-23 mpg.
I usually fill up in Rhode Island where all gasoline has MTBE and get 28-30 mpg depending on how I drive and the air temperature. But now our governor wants to outlaw MTBE in gasoline because some a$$hole gas station owne did not monitor his underground tanks, they leaked, and the MTBE caused well water comtamination for nearby residents. The problem is MTBE is soluble in water up to 4%. They only need to enforce the laws already on the books and prosecute the law breakers.

Back when the Title V air pollution laws changed, oil companies had to reformulate the gasoline to burn cleaner and added more MTBE. Car exhaust emmissions have been significantly lower.

In addition, I've read reports on the economics of EtOH fuels that cite that it takes more energy to product EtOH than the EtOH provides. That's all we need to do, place our whole economic in shambles.
 
In Nebraska all stations sold a 10% blend of ethanol, alothough it was a 89 or 90 rating. All cars can run that without any problems what so ever. But since the MSP requires 91 or better of course if you put that in you would lose some performace. I can the e10 in my probe the whole time that I owned the car and not one problem, that was about six years.

Not only would this e85 help us be less dependent on the middle east and other foriegn markets; it also helps out the farmers. Mostly the fewer and fewer family farms.
 
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