EMS solutions for the MSP

[yellerandahalf]

never tuned an AEM but my haltech was an absolute breeze to tune on the protege. as for no one giving maps....there are a few of us here who would be happy to give anyone a basemap for either the e6 or f10 unit

hey, who would the "bunch of us" be? I'm lookin at the haltech, any way you could give me a list of names, perhaps by PM? Thanks man!
-Mateo

 

[changedman]

The AEM should note the harness being strongly recommended unless you want to hardwire. The AEM isnt overly complex- it can auto tune to get a decent base map with a WB02

 

[TurfBurn]

Bump again to add the Microtech to the list.

 

[goku4658]

this has the makings of a quality thread!

 

[Spooled]

I wish I had the cash for the AEM setup. It's by far the best IMO, but of course is the most expensive, too. I love the auto-tune feature. Funny thing is that the other systems could probably add that through software updates alone...

 

[TurfBurn]

Lot of processor power to do that... and it's complicated to explain.. but not a perfect solution. It saves you time, but doesn't alleviate the need to still tune everything like your pump modifiers, your air temperatures etc. You STILL have to tune the car.. AND it doesn't do the timing (Please correct if I'm wrong) so it doesn't get you all that much further. Awesome feature though. And yeah, I'd imagine software changes for other EMS's could do it.

I'll argue with you on the by "far" the best. It's probably the "best" out there for Protege's but for what and for whom and by what measures? I'm obviously a fan of Microtech as it's what I use and my car ran fabulous, and made great power and was easy as hell to tune completely... so

 

[MPNick]

MPI all the way. The most used system on this forum. Complete control of spark and fuel, plus extra injectors. The most powerful cars on this forum run them and the fastest none NOS cars on the forum run them. Less then half the price of the standalones.

 

[herbieP5]

could we put up any information about the units and how they apply (or have applied) to NA applications. I see lots of FI guys chimming in, but lets support the whole community if we can.

might help a few of us out who might go NA.

just a thought. that is "if" there is information available.

P.S. one of the better threads I Have seen produced in a while.

 

[TurfBurn]

FI or NA it doesn't matter to the EMS. It may change which mode is preferable (you may want to tune in TPS on the Microtech instead of MAP so you have more resolution, but that's about it). It all still comes down to fuel, load, rpm, and timing and all the EMS's will do that.

 

[herbieP5]

k, good.

just wanted to put a bug out there, more for the vendors/users, that if they had a specific application that might be a feature/benifit to NA that they might want to pipe up and talk about it.

thanks

 

[Spooled]

I guess it's more of an opinion. And you're right, the AEM doesn't tune the car, it just gives a starting point that allows you to turn the car on and be drivable. I guess piggybacks do that already since you are using the factory tune as a starting point.

In the end, I still believe it's the tuner and combo of parts. I'll be happy just to get something that gives me timing/fuel control, and maybe some cool features like a built-in boost controller with boost maps so that I can have speed-based boost and fun stuff like that. AEM does have a great traction-control setup though.

Lot of processor power to do that... and it's complicated to explain.. but not a perfect solution. It saves you time, but doesn't alleviate the need to still tune everything like your pump modifiers, your air temperatures etc. You STILL have to tune the car.. AND it doesn't do the timing (Please correct if I'm wrong) so it doesn't get you all that much further. Awesome feature though. And yeah, I'd imagine software changes for other EMS's could do it.

I'll argue with you on the by "far" the best. It's probably the "best" out there for Protege's but for what and for whom and by what measures? I'm obviously a fan of Microtech as it's what I use and my car ran fabulous, and made great power and was easy as hell to tune completely... so

 

[Spooled]

Ooo, I almost forgot about the 16 programmable analog outputs that the AEM has. You could do all kinds of fun stuff with that, like automatically open an exhaust bypass at 40mph and while under boost, or kick in the nitrous at full load over 20 mph.

Edit: And the 7 switch inputs...

 

[TurfBurn]

k, good.

just wanted to put a bug out there, more for the vendors/users, that if they had a specific application that might be a feature/benifit to NA that they might want to pipe up and talk about it.

thanks

Well the Microtech's ability to do TPS and MAP based tuning is a nice option as it gives you different ways to approach what you need to do. The MPI has the benefit of the stock ECU working with it/against it/under it which is a very intelligent NA computer. I'm sure the AEM also has a host of nice features. So it's a big tossup really! Lots of featuers lots of approaches, lots of methods, and lots of dollars and dollar differences!

Brave NA boys .

 

[TurfBurn]

Ooo, I almost forgot about the 16 programmable analog outputs that the AEM has. You could do all kinds of fun stuff with that, like automatically open an exhaust bypass at 40mph and while under boost, or kick in the nitrous at full load over 20 mph.

Edit: And the 7 switch inputs...

Traction control only works if it is configured/enabled/spliced in. I'll tell you that you likely don't really need too many of those outputs unless you want to go FULL standalone and then have to program all your own lights, AC, blinkers, locks, etc. Otherwise the Microtech carries a number of auxillaries (and can have more added) enough to do water injection, auxillary blowers, bypass valves etc. I'd guess the Haltech does as well.

ALL the EMS's out there have hosts of features. It's not AEM specific or Microtech or Hatlech or Motech specific. And you have to actually have a use for a feature for it actually to be a feature.

 

[MPNick]

k, good.

just wanted to put a bug out there, more for the vendors/users, that if they had a specific application that might be a feature/benifit to NA that they might want to pipe up and talk about it.

thanks

Where have you been? Yes the NA guys were left out in the cold, no more. We have a NA car right now this is running the MPI Tuner. He has posted on the EMS section for about a month. He still is fine tuning a little more before the car gets dynoed. He is the thread.

http://www.msprotege.com/vbb230/showthread.php?t=90334

 

[TurfBurn]

Cool Nick! Glad to see the NA guys get some Vendor attention

 

[MPNick]

you're right, the AEM doesn't tune the car, it just gives a starting point that allows you to turn the car on and be drivable. I guess piggybacks do that already since you are using the factory tune as a starting point.

In the end, I still believe it's the tuner and combo of parts. I'll be happy just to get something that gives me timing/fuel control, and maybe some cool features like a built-in boost controller with boost maps so that I can have speed-based boost and fun stuff like that.

You hit the nail on the head. You are starting from a stock good working map, that is also 50state legal. Then you use the extra injector to add fuel only when you need them under higher boost.

As for boost control being a good option, maybe? When we ran the TEC-III on our 7 second 2.3 we tried to control boost with it. It was OK but not great. Even the MPI can control boost, but not great. The same can be said for NOS control. Most ems units can control boost, NOS, and some more things. But none of them do as good of a job as the units that are built for it. Take the Boost control. There are tons of them on the market. They are made for just one thing, to control boost. Some of them you can program alot more then others, some are very basic. Most of them will do a better job then a ems. So yes alot of ems system have extra options they come with, but they may not do a great job with the options.

Take any ems system, my guess is it will cost you anywhere from $1,700.00 to $3,000.00 by the time you are done with a full system with any small sensors or what ever you need to install one. I would think if you are going down this road you have a built engine and all of the other goodies you need to make big power. At this point in time the budget has been busted. Why not spend the extra $400.00 or so dollars and get a real boost control unit that will do a much better job of boost control for you?

 

[tekkie]

You also need the pressure sensor and pressure sensor cable as well for turbo setups

THIS STATEMENT IS TOTALY WRONG!

The e-manage IS laptop compatable and it DOES control timing. To use this

Piggy-back you should also buy a FM volatge clamp($100) and the Greddy

Pressure sensor(3 BAR MAP, $100). To anyone that is considering using the

E-manage, the unit is user friendly and their are alot of tuners that know

how to use it and i beleive it is the most afforable for use in tuning

Fuel/Timing.

 

[herbieP5]

Where have you been? Yes the NA guys were left out in the cold, no more. We have a NA car right now this is running the MPI Tuner. He has posted on the EMS section for about a month. He still is fine tuning a little more before the car gets dynoed. He is the thread.

http://www.msprotege.com/vbb230/showthread.php?t=90334

Hey Nick,

I have been arround. just not sayin much. it seems there have been a lot of the same arguments time and time again. when the quality threads come up though, its good to get in on them.

thanks for the link, it is helpful. still not sure which way to go. but in any case, I am about a year away from boostin. I think I am gonna buy a used engine and start building over time and collecting parts. (i.e. EMS)

 

[TurfBurn]

Just look at all the options. Find out what each unit can do and what will work best for your app. If you see something you like about one find out how useful it will actually be for you. Don't buy the AEM or the Microtech because they have more bells and whistles, features and claims. But because you actually need them. If you need that get one of those, otherwise the MPI may suit your needs. Any customer I have I make sure they get what they NEED, not what I want to sell them. It's better business practice. I'll sell you a Microtech if you want one, but I'd rather see you save money and get more mods to your car than buy an expensive EMS that you don't need. BUT if you need the features and power for this reason or that, then I'll happily sell and support you all the way.

Just evaluate your options for YOUR needs. There is far too much heated opinion from loyalists on these forums that will only swear by one management or another. They all can run a motor, but the question will be what do you need for YOUR motor.