Well wheres that electricity going to come from? Batteries? your single battery in the engine compartment isn't going to be enough to drive an electric motor required to provide enough boost to make a difference. You'll need more than one, which adds weight, and then a bigger alternator to recharge those batteries, and then you have the problem of not having continuous bost. You'll only have short bursts, like what is already out on the market.
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electric supercharger
- Thread starter ducktape
- Start date
Jeph said:Well wheres that electricity going to come from? Batteries? your single battery in the engine compartment isn't going to be enough to drive an electric motor required to provide enough boost to make a difference. You'll need more than one, which adds weight, and then a bigger alternator to recharge those batteries, and then you have the problem of not having continuous bost. You'll only have short bursts, like what is already out on the market.
Nope. You don't need additional batteries. A well made convertor is all you need to boost that voltage to whatever needed. Plus it doesn't even need to be in the engine bay. Depending on how it would be used the stock alternator would be sufficient. Just think of those over the counter 12V --> 120V converters that exist right now. They do not need a new alternator and you can run them as long as you want provided the car is on.
SNike05 said:Nope. You don't need additional batteries. A well made convertor is all you need to boost that voltage to whatever needed. Plus it doesn't even need to be in the engine bay. Depending on how it would be used the stock alternator would be sufficient. Just think of those over the counter 12V --> 120V converters that exist right now. They do not need a new alternator and you can run them as long as you want provided the car is on.
You can't magically make 12v into 120v. Power CONVERTERS, convert power from one type to another, AC to DC or visa versa
anarchistchiken
Member
- :
- 03 Silver Protege5
No, you can convert 12v to 120v, but if you have 12 volts at 1 amp, then you'll have 120v at 0.1 amp, and you're going to need a LOT more than a tenth of an amp to push a blower, like a lot a lot. If you're talking about a real blower and not a bilge pump like they sell on Ebay, you'll need probably the equivelent of a 3 or 4 hp gas engine to push it, and that is a LOT of current coming off our crappy stock alternator. That's why the TKT kit has a bank of four batteries that charged for 15 minutes and then give you a 20 second burst, it needs that much power stored up to push the blower.
Go hog wild if you want, but I've been researching all kinds of blowers for the last year and a half, and I'm telling you that it's very damn near impossible to do what you're talking about, and the only way to make it even a little feasable is to huge a massive alternator (18 wheeler style) to get the needed power, and it would be a lot easier and cheaper to just throw a turbo or a normal supercharger on it.
Go hog wild if you want, but I've been researching all kinds of blowers for the last year and a half, and I'm telling you that it's very damn near impossible to do what you're talking about, and the only way to make it even a little feasable is to huge a massive alternator (18 wheeler style) to get the needed power, and it would be a lot easier and cheaper to just throw a turbo or a normal supercharger on it.
anarchistchiken said:No, you can convert 12v to 120v, but if you have 12 volts at 1 amp, then you'll have 120v at 0.1 amp, and you're going to need a LOT more than a tenth of an amp to push a blower, like a lot a lot. If you're talking about a real blower and not a bilge pump like they sell on Ebay, you'll need probably the equivelent of a 3 or 4 hp gas engine to push it, and that is a LOT of current coming off our crappy stock alternator. That's why the TKT kit has a bank of four batteries that charged for 15 minutes and then give you a 20 second burst, it needs that much power stored up to push the blower.
Go hog wild if you want, but I've been researching all kinds of blowers for the last year and a half, and I'm telling you that it's very damn near impossible to do what you're talking about, and the only way to make it even a little feasable is to huge a massive alternator (18 wheeler style) to get the needed power, and it would be a lot easier and cheaper to just throw a turbo or a normal supercharger on it.
huh, well i guess i learn something new everyday. But thanks for confirming my point. A lot of other people have already thought of what you have thought of, and if there was a feasible way to do it, then it probablky would've been done. So there is a reason that the current electric supercharger systems on the market run off extra batteries and a bigger alternator.
anarchistchiken said:No, you can convert 12v to 120v, but if you have 12 volts at 1 amp, then you'll have 120v at 0.1 amp, and you're going to need a LOT more than a tenth of an amp to push a blower, like a lot a lot.
I wouldn't be doing this but this thread is definitely a good brainstorm.
Now lets go into a bit of physics shall we:
P = I*V - power equals current times voltage
Talking strictly about stuff that already exist without fabrication anything I can find 3000W converters (there could be higher i did a quick search). If you leave voltage constant at say 120 you have 25A right there. 25A is way more then enough to push any blower that will fit into a car. As much as I would like to agree with you your statement is incorrect. So I still don't see a reason for all those batteries. Again talking about stuff that already exists you don't need a new alternator for that 3000W converter even if it is run all the time.
- :
- 2000 Protege DX
SNike05 said:I wouldn't be doing this but this thread is definitely a good brainstorm.
Now lets go into a bit of physics shall we:
P = I*V - power equals current times voltage
Talking strictly about stuff that already exist without fabrication anything I can find 3000W converters (there could be higher i did a quick search). If you leave voltage constant at say 120 you have 25A right there. 25A is way more then enough to push any blower that will fit into a car. As much as I would like to agree with you your statement is incorrect. So I still don't see a reason for all those batteries. Again talking about stuff that already exists you don't need a new alternator for that 3000W converter even if it is run all the time.
Your a genius !! Call Thomas Knight yourself and tell him you've figured out a way to push his electric superchargers for extended periods !! Maybe he'll make you a partner !
TampaSport20 said:Your a genius !! Call Thomas Knight yourself and tell him you've figured out a way to push his electric superchargers for extended periods !! Maybe he'll make you a partner !
Never said I can do it. I was only explaining how you can get more current if needed brainiac. Furthermore if you read the second post I said clearly that if it was a great idea why hasn't it been done.
Its odvious that no one here knows jack s*** about electric superchargers. So sit down shut up you might just learn something.
Our alternator puts out 90A * 12v = 1080W. Thats not enough to handle a decent system let alone push a blower. IF you were to run a blower this way it would cause a load to be induced on the alternator which would intern cause a load on the engine much like how a traditional supercharger works.
The problem with traditional super chargers is that they produce a load on the engine by having the engine spin the blower, this means it takes power to make power and you lose a bit of power. Its why turbos make more power then superchargers. But even turbos aren't perfect they clog up the exhaust wasting some engine power. What ever power boosted engines loose they make up by just turning up the boost.
Solution batteries, charge them and use them short term. This does not incure any extra load on the engine and all the power is pure gain. Your storing waste energy to use later. This means that a electricly boosted engine will make more power at the same boost level as a traditionally boosted engine (due to not having loses). This is a much better and safer power adder then nitrous but has the same effect.
+ You only need one battery how long do you spend with the gas floored, I know most of my time is spent cruising (battery charging). If I want a hit of power Ill just floor the gas for a little while then stop (how long will you hold the gas after hitting 120 (governer)). If you want to race someone you'd win. A single fully charged battery will last a good amount of runs down the track.
I would like to direct the rest of your questions to
http://www.boosthead.com/product.php
Where he goes over such things as how much it weighs (17lb) != 300lbs.
I would also like to point out that 5psi gives a 100hp gain with an electric system. Dont the 2.0's explode when given enough boost to make that much. How about someone refresh my memory on how much boost it takes a protege to put out an extra 100hp.
I would like to point out that this is useless in a track (not drag strip) situation where youll need constant power. But so is nitrous.
As a testament to the electric supercharger Knight had the worlds fastest boat using an electric supercharger.
It doesnt take much boost to make good power if its not getting parasiticly drained by a super/turbo charger. Any one have the video of the kids usuing a leaf blower heald to the intake of a civic on a dyno (they made great power)
Our alternator puts out 90A * 12v = 1080W. Thats not enough to handle a decent system let alone push a blower. IF you were to run a blower this way it would cause a load to be induced on the alternator which would intern cause a load on the engine much like how a traditional supercharger works.
The problem with traditional super chargers is that they produce a load on the engine by having the engine spin the blower, this means it takes power to make power and you lose a bit of power. Its why turbos make more power then superchargers. But even turbos aren't perfect they clog up the exhaust wasting some engine power. What ever power boosted engines loose they make up by just turning up the boost.
Solution batteries, charge them and use them short term. This does not incure any extra load on the engine and all the power is pure gain. Your storing waste energy to use later. This means that a electricly boosted engine will make more power at the same boost level as a traditionally boosted engine (due to not having loses). This is a much better and safer power adder then nitrous but has the same effect.
+ You only need one battery how long do you spend with the gas floored, I know most of my time is spent cruising (battery charging). If I want a hit of power Ill just floor the gas for a little while then stop (how long will you hold the gas after hitting 120 (governer)). If you want to race someone you'd win. A single fully charged battery will last a good amount of runs down the track.
I would like to direct the rest of your questions to
http://www.boosthead.com/product.php
Where he goes over such things as how much it weighs (17lb) != 300lbs.
I would also like to point out that 5psi gives a 100hp gain with an electric system. Dont the 2.0's explode when given enough boost to make that much. How about someone refresh my memory on how much boost it takes a protege to put out an extra 100hp.
I would like to point out that this is useless in a track (not drag strip) situation where youll need constant power. But so is nitrous.
As a testament to the electric supercharger Knight had the worlds fastest boat using an electric supercharger.
It doesnt take much boost to make good power if its not getting parasiticly drained by a super/turbo charger. Any one have the video of the kids usuing a leaf blower heald to the intake of a civic on a dyno (they made great power)
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zerocover said:Its odvious that no one here knows jack s*** about electric superchargers.
Nope, at least I don't, but I think thats what the point of the thread was.
zerocover said:Our alternator puts out 90A * 12v = 1080W. Thats not enough to handle a decent system let alone push a blower. IF you were to run a blower this way it would cause a load to be induced on the alternator which would intern cause a load on the engine much like how a traditional supercharger works.
I forgot to ask you do you know how much 1 amp is and what it is capable of? I will give you a realistic example ok. The blower of a furnace in a fairly large house pushes about 450 PSI of air not 5 or 10 or 20 but 450. Guess how much current it takes to do this? Approximately 40A depending on the speed because they do vary it only takes 40A to push 450 pounds of air per square inch. Therefore I think with even an over the counter car converter you can easily push any size blower that can fit under the hood as I stated before.
I will now step out of this conversation because I have no intention to take on such a task nor do I have the knowledge to do so (I was merely thinking about and sharing my thoughts as asked by the author of the thread). Furthermore explaining simple high school physics is getting boring and repetitive.
Lets go over basic high school physics again i think your having some troubles with it.
P=IV
I = current
V= voltage
House voltage = 120 v
120*40=4800 watts
Our alternators only put out 1080 watts at most. 4800>1080
You cant magicly make more power by stepping up the voltage because the power will always be the same. All your doing is trading 12V@90A for 120v@9A. With a converter (a 100% efficent ac/dc converter does not exist try closer to 60% efficent) you would get even less power then that. OUr alternator can only put out 1080 watts thats all. Its like how the engine puts out 100 hp no mater how you gear it, it will only put out 100 hp if everything else is the same.
I would also like to point out that pressure changes depending on the volume your pumping it into. Your blower prob only pumps that out through some small tube (more highschool physics the bigger the tube the less the pressure), the engine is always eating up air so a pressure build up takes alot of power. What you should be looking at is CFM or the total air moved.
P=IV
I = current
V= voltage
House voltage = 120 v
120*40=4800 watts
Our alternators only put out 1080 watts at most. 4800>1080
You cant magicly make more power by stepping up the voltage because the power will always be the same. All your doing is trading 12V@90A for 120v@9A. With a converter (a 100% efficent ac/dc converter does not exist try closer to 60% efficent) you would get even less power then that. OUr alternator can only put out 1080 watts thats all. Its like how the engine puts out 100 hp no mater how you gear it, it will only put out 100 hp if everything else is the same.
I would also like to point out that pressure changes depending on the volume your pumping it into. Your blower prob only pumps that out through some small tube (more highschool physics the bigger the tube the less the pressure), the engine is always eating up air so a pressure build up takes alot of power. What you should be looking at is CFM or the total air moved.
- :
- 2000 Protege DX
simple english, a power inverter will NOT produce the power required to run a REAL electric supercharger
is class dismissed now zero ?? I swear I heard the bell ring (thumb)
is class dismissed now zero ?? I swear I heard the bell ring (thumb)
You just don't get it do you. Definitely for one thing I have realized that you do not read all the posts inside the thread before posting because I have already answered your response.
Now one i know you have no clue what an amp is. Two you have never seen a furnace blower and ducting inside a house. And finally three nobody in this entire thread so far has any clue how a converter/inverter/transformer works. Because you have proved it to me by your uneducated posts right up there. It doesn't matter to me if you and your sidekick both think you are correct.
I am not going to explain using theory of physics because it is very apparent to me that you slept through high school if you even went to it. What was a good discussion on something that does have potential in theory has turned into an extremely unschooled argument.
Now to conclude I would like you all to take a good look at this link and understand that what you are trying to say is impossible actually exists.
READ CAREFULLY THAT IS A 3000w TRANSFORMER TO HOOK UP APPLIANCES TO YOUR CAR. YOU DO NOT NEED TO CHANGE ALTERNATORS, YOU DO NOT NEED MORE BATTERIES.
I am now unsubscribing because your very weak responses are giving me a headache. You may continue saying whatever you like the fact is 25A (yes that is what I said many posts back) is more then enough to push any electric blower, stop thinking about traditional superchargers. The goal is to get air into the intake using electricity by any means.
Have a nice day gentlemen !
Now one i know you have no clue what an amp is. Two you have never seen a furnace blower and ducting inside a house. And finally three nobody in this entire thread so far has any clue how a converter/inverter/transformer works. Because you have proved it to me by your uneducated posts right up there. It doesn't matter to me if you and your sidekick both think you are correct.
I am not going to explain using theory of physics because it is very apparent to me that you slept through high school if you even went to it. What was a good discussion on something that does have potential in theory has turned into an extremely unschooled argument.
Now to conclude I would like you all to take a good look at this link and understand that what you are trying to say is impossible actually exists.
READ CAREFULLY THAT IS A 3000w TRANSFORMER TO HOOK UP APPLIANCES TO YOUR CAR. YOU DO NOT NEED TO CHANGE ALTERNATORS, YOU DO NOT NEED MORE BATTERIES.
I am now unsubscribing because your very weak responses are giving me a headache. You may continue saying whatever you like the fact is 25A (yes that is what I said many posts back) is more then enough to push any electric blower, stop thinking about traditional superchargers. The goal is to get air into the intake using electricity by any means.
Have a nice day gentlemen !
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