Drug Laws and the 'War on Drugs' discussion thread

[jersey_emt]

Please keep this civil and intelligent.

What are your views on the current prohibition model of drug control, and the 'War on Drugs?'

Is it effective or ineffective?

Does it solve problems or create more of its own?

Good points and bad points about the prohibition model?

How do you think drugs should be controlled in the United States?

Discuss

 

[jersey_emt]

I think the current drug control system (prohibition) is grossly ineffective. Despite the thousands of lives and the billions of dollars the War on Drugs has cost, drug use has not declined. Approximately the same percentage of people use drugs now compared to before the War on Drugs was declared.

In addition, many of the problems prohibition claims to prevent are actually caused by prohibition. Two of the main problems, drug crimes and the spread of diseases, are actually made worse by the fact that drugs are illegal. With a better system in place, there would be no reason for most of the drug crimes, and users would have unimpeded access to sterile supplies.

I believe the proper method of drug control is education and harm reduction. No matter what punishments are prescribed for drug users, there will be large numbers of people who will continue to use drugs. Proper education on the effects and dangers of drugs would be a great start. You might say that people are already educated in school about this topic....well yes and no. The current style of drug education simply teaches that all drugs are bad. Which is blatantly false, but that is a whole different discussion. Feel free to research the true dangers of the illegal drugs versus those of alcohol and tobacco, and you may be surprised. Harm reduction also entails giving users access to clean needles and effective rehabilitation for addicts.

Drugs should be controlled similar to the way alcohol is controlled. Put an age restriction on them. Did you know that studies have shown it is actually EASIER for a minor to get ahold of an illegal drug than it is alcohol? So many people are thinking that the War on Drugs makes it safer for the children, when in fact it is doing the exact opposite.

Further proof -- look at countries in Europe who have legalized or decriminalized certain drugs. Has their society fallen apart? Absolutely not. In fact, they have less of a drug problem than we do here.

Although I do not personally choose to use any illegal substance (and even if they all were legal I would make the same choices for nearly all drugs), I defend the choice we should have the right to make. If a consenting adult chooses to 'pursue happiness' like the Constitution grants us the right to do by ingesting a certain substance in the privacy of their own home, with the proper precautions to prevent loss of life or property, I see no problems.

 

[DSM2MSP]

I concur.

 

[MazdaNeal]

Actually, wasnt marijuana outlawed in the thirties not because it was a "drug" so to speak, but because medicine companies were on the rise and it took away from them making profits from other prescription drugs?

Also, studies show that in other countries where marijuana was made legal its use died considerably. I believe its the "illegal" effect that makes it so popular. Also it would hurt the underground drug scene very badly. It would be taxed to hell probably, but what else isnt?

 

[jersey_emt]

Actually, wasnt marijuana outlawed in the thirties not because it was a "drug" so to speak, but because medicine companies were on the rise and it took away from them making profits from other prescription drugs?

Also, studies show that in other countries where marijuana was made legal its use died considerably. I believe its the "illegal" effect that makes it so popular. Also it would hurt the underground drug scene very badly. It would be taxed to hell probably, but what else isnt?

Racism is the real reason why marijuana became illegal. In the early 1900's, when Mexicans and Mexican-Americans began moving farther north in search of a better life. Legislation insisted that all Mexicans were crazy, and that marijuana made them crazy (Reefer Madness). Some murderers used this to their advantage, testifying that marijuana had caused their homicidical insanity, which further ingrained the pot = insanity belief into the minds of the Americans.


But yes you are right....organized crime (and a lot of 'disorganized' crime) depends on the very fact that drugs are illegal. 'Every time you make something illegal, you make criminals rich'

 

[jersey_emt]

Of course nobody think that I believe that legalizing drugs is a perfect solution. To put it simply, there is no perfect solution. I just believe that age-restricted control on most, if not all, drugs, is a much better solution than prohibition. Drugs are always going to be around, we might as well minimize the risks and dangers by proper control of drugs, and harm-reduction education.

 

[msp35]

I agree with the age limit. But for all drugs I think that anything naturally grown should not be illegal.....i.e. marijuana. I mean a plant that has been on the earth from damn near the beginning of time should definately not be illegal.

 

[xelderx]

I have no beef with pot although I have no intentions of ever doing it or being around people that are. I think we need to forget the whole marijuana argument for a little bit and concentrate more on the drugs that are really causing problems in society. Mostly cocaine and it's derivatives. Drugs that cause hard addiction. This is the fuel for most simple crimes like robbery, shoplifting, and larceny. People's lives are consumed by the needs for these drugs once addicted and it is almost impossible to break that addiction. These kinds of addicts are a danger to themselves and society as they will prey on innocent people to obtain the means to feed their addiction once they have sold or traded everything they own. It really hits home for me knowing that I talk to people everyday who are victims of addicts like this and sometimes I even get to talk to the addicts who's need for the drug is so potent that they would trade their own car or their mother's car for drugs and then try to claim it's stolen. I mean...without my car I'm useless and I could never see myself giving that up for something so destructive, but these people don't even think twice about it. This is where the "War on Drugs" needs to fight.

 

[torque222]

the big players should be illegal, such as pcp,heroin, crack, meth, acid, angels trumpet, and if someone wants to go pick mushrooms out of the cow s*** then that should be illegal to. but the truth on marijuana is that if they legalized it for 2 years all over the u.s then the profits and taxes on it would cure the world defacit and we would be better off as a country. but they won't so we are still in debt. the more dangerous drugs are what ruined it for all you pot smokers... and you know who you are...lol but on behalf of all us crack dealers i appologize for the inconvenience that we have bistode upon you and we wish you well in cultivating your crops and may you profit well. so if you are deciding to go into the street pharmacutical bussiness and you need me to front you some cash, just ask.... no intrest till 2006...just kidding........ for real now, the war on drugs is a lost cause, you may bust a few but there will always be someone to replace the one that got busted, as the D.E.A gets smarter so do the smugglers. and its all about the mighty dollar, they don't care who gets hurt or killed as long as they got a phat bank. i have no respect for them. (pot smokers are o:k).. we use to roll the neighborhood drug dealers and take there profits... we call it civil justice..

 

[uclap5]

i agree with all the good statements in this thread and disagree with the bad statements.

 

[scorch70]

I agree that the war on drugs is a waste of time. Unfortunately, the GOV sees all the money they have spent (wasted) on the war on drugs, and all the manpower whose jobs totally revolve around the war on drugs, and they say "we cant stop fighting now, look at all the money we have spent." They havent studied the economic principle of "sunk costs" which basically means that you shouldnt base future monetary spending on past monetary spending. IOW, just because the GOV has spent billions on this war on drugs, doesnt mean they have to continue with it.

But I honestly dont believe any drug (pot, coke, etc) will be totally legalized in my lifetime. Too many stupid people running the show.


scorch70
any Econ majors can correct me on the sunk costs example. Its been a while since college.

 

[70]

Legalize or not the bigger issue is the forced mandatory minimum sentences that federal judges are faced with. The judges were against this stuff when it first came down the pipe (it took away their discretion), but they were forced to follow the guide lines...

Even if marijuana were legalized, it will not cut down on the current prison population nor will it take care of the mandatory sentencing that has to be followed. Sure taxing marijuana might ease the strain of the costs for housing so many inmates, but the fact is they are still there and when they get out they will be in the same spot they were before going in.

The war on drugs is a huge issue. And I think every administration has fallen into the true believer syndrome that more money and minimum sentences will cure the problem. But school programs such as DARE, and soem others do not work. The current war on drugs doesn't really work.

And now that most states have changed the property seizure laws governing drug busts, it is harder for the local PD's to keep up with the Feds on the war on drugs. Funding isn't there...

 

[msp35]

Legalize or not the bigger issue is the forced mandatory minimum sentences that federal judges are faced with. The judges were against this stuff when it first came down the pipe (it took away their discretion), but they were forced to follow the guide lines...

Even if marijuana were legalized, it will not cut down on the current prison population nor will it take care of the mandatory sentencing that has to be followed. Sure taxing marijuana might ease the strain of the costs for housing so many inmates, but the fact is they are still there and when they get out they will be in the same spot they were before going in.

The war on drugs is a huge issue. And I think every administration has fallen into the true believer syndrome that more money and minimum sentences will cure the problem. But school programs such as DARE, and soem others do not work. The current war on drugs doesn't really work.

And now that most states have changed the property seizure laws governing drug busts, it is harder for the local PD's to keep up with the Feds on the war on drugs. Funding isn't there...

One major problem is that people get caught up in the "game" once caught and they have a record, that severly limits the possibility of finding a legit job. I do believe the mandatory sentancing law should definately be ammended, if not completely revised.

As for not enough funding, how much does the gov get from taxing tobacco and alcohol? Just think if they were to regulate and legalize marijuana alone. How much would that create in revenue for them? Surely enough to cover said drug education programs and then some. If gov officials were aware of the vast numbers in which people use MJ then surely they'd move towards this, but then again when did the gov policies make sense and help the common man?

Many of the first time offenders could be simply pardoned, with some sort of fine, and probation. Then fewer offenders would obviously be going into prison. If the punishments were lessened then it would be easier for a new beginning so to speak. I mean, their would not be a felony record making it easier to move on and get a legit job. But then again there will always be those that live for the "game" and do nothing but push. Those people surely would have a record and therefore their punishments would be justified.

I still think that other drugs that carry a potential risk of an OD should illegal and never used. Fact is that it's impossible to OD from simply smoking weed.

 

[Bud Buddy]

All drugs should be legal

I have no beef with pot although I have no intentions of ever doing it or being around people that are. I think we need to forget the whole marijuana argument for a little bit and concentrate more on the drugs that are really causing problems in society. Mostly cocaine and it's derivatives.

Interestingly more Colombians die each year from US tobacco products than Americans die from Colombian cocaine. So what is the real drug war all about?

The coca plant has been used safely for thousands of years before Europeans arrived in South America. Now we spray their fields with Monsanto's poisons in an effort to wipe out cultivation of thise most useful plant.

Coca is no more harmful or addictive than coffe. The reason people have problems with cocaine is because of its purity and concentration. If they put the cocaine back into Coca Cola then those who want a Coca buzz could get one safely. The world would be a better place with legal drugs.

All drugs should be legal. The more dangerous the drug, the more it needs to be legal, regulated for safety and controlled.

The fact is you can get high from anything. Are we going to ban paper bags and glue because some people huff glue? Will we ban gasoline because some people like to get a buzz from gas fumes?

Getting high and altering consciousness is entriely natural and normal. A wise government policy would be to accept this fact of human nature, and to minimize the harms and maximize the benefits of drug use.

Sex can cause problems, and some people commit ****. But do we ban sex? No, we encourage responsible sex, we encourage condom use, we educate people about responsible sexuality. We need to take the same approach to drugs.

 

[JCell]

^^^ could not agree more, well put

 

[orangezoom]

I agree they should make Tabacco illegel if they make all other drugs illegel, I have quit many drugs and Tabacco was the worst.

 

[Stealth5]

legalize it (stoned)



or at least decriminalize

 

[Dr.Sound]

Interestingly more Colombians die each year from US tobacco products than Americans die from Colombian cocaine. So what is the real drug war all about?

The coca plant has been used safely for thousands of years before Europeans arrived in South America. Now we spray their fields with Monsanto's poisons in an effort to wipe out cultivation of thise most useful plant.

Coca is no more harmful or addictive than coffe. The reason people have problems with cocaine is because of its purity and concentration. If they put the cocaine back into Coca Cola then those who want a Coca buzz could get one safely. The world would be a better place with legal drugs.

All drugs should be legal. The more dangerous the drug, the more it needs to be legal, regulated for safety and controlled.

The fact is you can get high from anything. Are we going to ban paper bags and glue because some people huff glue? Will we ban gasoline because some people like to get a buzz from gas fumes?

Getting high and altering consciousness is entriely natural and normal. A wise government policy would be to accept this fact of human nature, and to minimize the harms and maximize the benefits of drug use.

Sex can cause problems, and some people commit ****. But do we ban sex? No, we encourage responsible sex, we encourage condom use, we educate people about responsible sexuality. We need to take the same approach to drugs.

wow man,
very well put

 

[Nextruss]

all i know is pot is illegal for the sole fact that the government makes too much money from it being illegal

 

[msp35]

all i know is pot is illegal for the sole fact that the government makes too much money from it being illegal

How so? You think that the seizures they make in a year justify the amount they put into; man hours, building hrs, Drug programs, and the 'Drug War' in general. I doubt that. They loose their asses every year. Not to mention the offenders they put in jail, where they are fed and housed @ somebodies cost. I don't think there is any doubt they would make more off taxing sales, and regulation than the current drug program.


The goverment is just not willing to admit that they may have made a mistake in making everything illegal. That, and they have larger things to worry about now. Like getting out of this damn war........sometime.