Disappointing Audio Upgrade

[digitalslacker]

So I got sick of the factory sound system the first week I had the car. The door speakers were crap and I happened to have a set of older MB Quart 5x7/6x8 laying around from when I upgraded my contour. Put them in with the factory head unit and life was good. A few weeks after that I gutted the car and dynamated the whole floor panel and doors.

Two years later I upgraded the factory CD player to a JVC NT3HDT which had HD radio built in and nav (which isnt great but I digress) and I ran like that for a few months. I have a pretty nice radio in my contour and I wanted to upgrade the pro5 to something nicer.

I wanted more sound (midbass / bass) out of the front speakers so I got a pair of Image Dynamic 6.5 that were recommended in another thread. I also got a RF 400-2 amp to drive them. Flash forward to today after two days of installing

The bass from the front doors is basically no different. Honestly it just doesnt sound that hard-hitting as I would have expected. I have a set of infinity 6x8s in the front of the contour that have maybe 80w RMS to them and they are much clearer. I was doing some reading and most of the people seem to suggest that sealing the doors nets you a better end result. Is that recommended by everyone here? I know there has got to be some guys here with killer stereos that can chime in.

Here is the setup so far:

Head-Unit:
- JCV NT3HDT (2.5v pre-amps) https://www.amazon.com/dp/ (commissions earned)

Amp:
- Rockford Fosgate P400-2 (144w x 2 RMS @ 4ohm according to birth sheet)

Speakers:
- Image Dynamics 6.5 CTX65CS (100w RMS / 200w Peak) http://www.woofersetc.com/p-6201-ctx65cs-image-dynamics-65-component-speaker-system.aspx

Wiring:
- 4 Gauge Power / Ground to Amp
- 14 Gauge into doors from amp


Anyone? I am sitting here thinking I just wasted 400$ to get something just marginally better then what I had. I refuse to believe that a 20w RMS / 50w peak head unit can push the same sound this amp / speaker combo can.

 

[thejash]

Hey,

Going from a 6x8 to a 6.5 inch speaker in the front, while i'm sure they sound a million times better, you would actually lose low end output by reducing the amount of surface area of the speaker. Bass is all about moving air, the larger the surface and longer the throw (xmax) the more bass your going to get. As for sealing up the doors, highly recommended. It was the very first thing I did to my Protege, literately the weekend after I brought it home. I would highly suggest keeping the ID 6.5's, even though I love MB Quartz (it's what I use in my car) 5x7's, 6x8's and 6x9's are just not capable of producing quality audio due to flaws in the design of the cone. The best thing you can do is add a subwoofer, even a small 10 inch in a sealed box would be a huge upgrade. Once the subwoofer is added the front speakers will work a lot less (the more a speaker moves the more distortion is will create), just make sure you set the crossovers properly.

Remember the goal of a speaker is to reproduce the audio signal to the best of it's ability, if it is artificially adding bass to the sound, it is considered distortion and the speaker is basically garbage.

-Josh

 

[digitalslacker]

How did you go about sealing the doors up? Correct me if I am wrong but there are some massive cuts in it for wires and random stuff... Do you have any pictures?

I can't add a sub over what is currently in the spare tire... I use the car for carrying too much stuff for that to work.

 

[Bastian]

If you are good with fiberglass or have a friend who is try making a stealth box, it won't take up any space

http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123669109-Protege5-Fiberglass-Subwoofer-Box

 

[tweety2300]

Just get a little 10" sub. Or the factory 03.5 spare tire sub

 

[wallabe]

Never like JVC head units, they don't offer that kind of "umph" like pioneer and alpine. Most of your bass is comes from the head unit processing the power. I proved that to a friend when I swapped out my pioneer head unit with his Kenwood unit. Lower volume with more bass and clearer sound. Also it depends on what type of music you mainly listen too, determines the radio to get. I like Hip-Hop, Dubstep, and Jazz. Pioneer has the better radio to produce the sound in that range. Their speakers and amp is not to par but head unit is great.

 

[Balls]

Digitalslacker, thejash had a lot of good things to say. Going from a 6x8 to a 6.5 isn't going to change how hard it "hits", regardless of brand. The speaker size is your limitation. Using an amp for those ID's is a good idea, but as thejash said, make sure you have them crossed over properly. You can make them play as loud as you want (well almost, every speaker does have it's limitations) as long as you make them play the frequencies they are DESIGNED to play. Speakers of that size aren't made to play low frequencies. Adding a subwoofer is your best bet for what you want. As far as not having space, you are just not being creative enough. I have never not been able to fit anything in my car, including 2 car seats and double stroller, while still having a 12" sub at all times. This was my solution.http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showthread.php?123742658-Sub-Box-Finally-Done!

 

[digitalslacker]

Hmm.

I guess let me add some details. The ID speakers have a crossover that comes with them. I do have it wired up the way the directions intended. When you say 'crossed over properly' are you talking HPF on the amp precluding low frequencies from even getting to the crossover? IE cut everything under 58hz?

I do have the factory sub (the in-spare-tire 100w one). I actually took it apart yesterday to see if i could upgrade the speaker in it but I can't find any 5.25" DVC speakers. I'd give a tang band 5.25" a shot but its not DVC and i don't want to burn the factory amp up.

As for sealing up the doors, does anyone have suggestions on that?

 

[Balls]

The crossover that comes with the ID's are meant to split the incoming frequencies for the woofer and the tweeter, so that the tweeter only gets the frequencies it can handle (usually around 2khz and up) and the same for the woofer (around2khz and below). You would want to turn on the hpf (high pass filter) on the amp and set it around 80hz as a starting point and fine tune till it sounds right ie. when you can get the most amount of bass without any distortion. The speaker specs may say it can play down lower, but usually at lower levels, when you turn it up you can obviuosly hear that it doesn't very well. As for sealing the doors, in my opinion it's not necesary. If you have an issue with water getting into the doors, use some sound deadening material and make a hood over the speaker so it doesn't get wet. Speaker manufactures design these speakers to not be in a sealed enclosure to perform their best as just about every car door isn't sealed. Putting them into an enclosure can actually make them sound worse. Instead what I would recomend is to build a wooden baffle for the woofer to mount to and try to get as much sound deadening material on the doors as you can aford to do. Make that door solid! It will make your speaker sound better and help eliminate the road noise coming into from outside. Just my .02, take it for what it's worth.

 

[thejash]

Never like JVC head units, they don't offer that kind of "umph" like pioneer and alpine. Most of your bass is comes from the head unit processing the power. I proved that to a friend when I swapped out my pioneer head unit with his Kenwood unit. Lower volume with more bass and clearer sound. Also it depends on what type of music you mainly listen too, determines the radio to get. I like Hip-Hop, Dubstep, and Jazz. Pioneer has the better radio to produce the sound in that range. Their speakers and amp is not to par but head unit is great.

If you getting most of your bass from your head unit.. please shut the car off, hand the keys to some random stranger and take the bus from now on.

Every name brand deck (hell even the questionable garbage) in this day in age should be able to output a flat, distortion free signal from 20hz all the way to 20000hz. While some equipment may allow you to ruin your music by allowing you to boost the hell out of the bass, this is not a feature that anyone should be looking for in any piece of equipment period.

wallabe, I don't mean to piss in your corn flakes but posts like yours above is what makes me dread talking about car audio on the internet, even though it's something I enjoy.

-Josh

 

[thejash]

Hmm.

I guess let me add some details. The ID speakers have a crossover that comes with them. I do have it wired up the way the directions intended. When you say 'crossed over properly' are you talking HPF on the amp precluding low frequencies from even getting to the crossover? IE cut everything under 58hz?

I do have the factory sub (the in-spare-tire 100w one). I actually took it apart yesterday to see if i could upgrade the speaker in it but I can't find any 5.25" DVC speakers. I'd give a tang band 5.25" a shot but its not DVC and i don't want to burn the factory amp up.

As for sealing up the doors, does anyone have suggestions on that?

I would skip trying to install something that small, remember bass is all about cone area and xmax (moving air), that little 5.25 is going to be worse off then your current door speakers.

Balls has some good advice, the only thing I would change is without a subwoofer, you might want to set that high pass to 60hz instead of 80hz. If you do decide to add a subwoofer at some point it's not so cut and dry as to what to set the crossover point at but 80hz is a good starting point.

-Josh