Dangerous cylinder deactivation trouble on 2018 CX-5 and Mazda6 models

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
Check with dealer on this. They used TSB SA-055/20. In that TSB:

Oil pressure (reference value)
Lo: 135-165 kPa {1.38-1.68 kgf/cm2, 19.6-23.9 psi} [1,500 - 1,600 rpm]*
Hi: 225-275 kPa {2.30-2.80 kgf/cm2, 32.7-39.8 psi} [4,500 - 4,600 rpm]*
Oil temperature: 80-90 °C {176-194 °F}, Coolant temperature: 80-90 °C {176-194 °F}

I asked about discrepancy between these values and those in the service manual yrwei52 kindly provided. Response was they can only go by the trouble code and the tsb provided by Mazda. Possible the service manual values were not for the 2018 engine with cylinder deactivation?
Yes, after I reviewed the Service Alert No.: SA-055/20 and TSB No.: 01-020/18 related to DTC P0524 stored for low oil pressure, your dealer does have their point and they followed the specs listed in the SA and TSB for 2018 CX-5 2.5L with cylinder deactivation:

Lo: 135-165 kPa {1.38-1.68 kgf/cm2, 19.6-23.9 psi} [1,500 - 1,600 rpm]*

Hi: 225-275 kPa {2.30-2.80 kgf/cm2, 32.7-39.8 psi} [4,500 - 4,600 rpm]*


But you want to follow up the oil pressure measured on the low side at 1,500 rpm from your dealer as they should check the oil pressures both low and high.

But the question is still, your 2.5L has been having low oil pressure since new with below the spec ~26 psi @ 4,500 rpm and the CEL with DTC P0524 stored. Your Mazda dealer had failed to follow the TSB issued on 10/18/2018 checking the oil pressure low and high, and they’re responsible for the possible damage to your engine. This definitely has hurt the longevity of your engine.
 

AVC

:
'17 CX-5 Select
I'll argue the other side; 26 PSI at 4500 RPM isn't *that* far off nominal, so unless you drove for long periods like you stole it, or towed frequently, I doubt there is materially significant wear. Without any other symptoms (rod knock, valve train wear, oil pressure failed to reach nominal after OCV replacement...) they aren't going to replace the engine on principle. And you presumably still have miles and certainly several years left on drivetrain warranty. You *might* be successful in getting another 24k or 36k of engine warranty, but I'm not optimistic.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
I'll argue the other side; 26 PSI at 4500 RPM isn't *that* far off nominal, so unless you drove for long periods like you stole it, or towed frequently, I doubt there is materially significant wear. Without any other symptoms (rod knock, valve train wear, oil pressure failed to reach nominal after OCV replacement...) they aren't going to replace the engine on principle. And you presumably still have miles and certainly several years left on drivetrain warranty. You *might* be successful in getting another 24k or 36k of engine warranty, but I'm not optimistic.
For 2.5L with cylinder deactivation the spec is 32.7 ~ 39.8 psi @ 4,500 ~ 4,600 rpm. 26 psi is 20% lower than the minimum oil pressure, and 35% lower than maximum oil pressure. I personallly would pursue at least some sort of compensation to the ignorance of the Mazda dealer who didn’t follow the proper procedure to check the oil pressure at the first place. Pushing a new (rebuild) engine would be my first effort, getting some extended engine warranty would be my bottom line. Yes, I know doing this will be a long fight against MNAO.

Of course I’m fully aware the seriousness of the low oil pressure warnings, and I’d press the dealer doing the oil pressure test at the first visit for the problem if they didn’t do it, follow by compression and leak-down test, and I wouldn’t let the problem linger for 3 years.

To changes13, have you found out the oil pressure readings on low side at 1,500 ~ 1,600 rpm? Your dealer should have done that as stated in the Service Alert.

Now I was wondering why the oil pressure specs dropped 33% ~ 56% from non-CD 2.5L to CD 2.5L at 4,500 rpm ?
 

AVC

:
'17 CX-5 Select
Now I was wondering why the oil pressure specs dropped 33% ~ 56% from non-CD 2.5L to CD 2.5L at 4,500 rpm ?
Guesses: cylinder management parts don't need or don't like the higher pressure. MPG gains from using less HP to run oil pump. Improvements in oil specs and/or engine mechanical bits since the original Skyactiv lubrication system design 2009 (for MY 2011)? If you're rejiggering Skyactiv for MY 2018, why not scrutinize other aspects of design.
 
:
2018 CX-5 Sport
Asking for a new engine is extreme imho. The fear of getting the low oil pressure indicator is that there is zero oil pressure. Since yours still had 26 at the higher rpm, It is very unlikely that any engine damage occurred. After saying that, I would want to cut open the oil filter to look for an excess amount of debris captured. If there was a bunch of metal flakes and particles captured showing that metal on metal contacting occurred then I would want a new engine.
 
:
2018 CX-5 Sport
I would try and get a free extended warranty, with the angle that it wasn't diagnosed properly the first time and you have concern with your engine's longevity. They will probably say you had no damage, and you can say "Well then getting an extended warranty won't cost them anything since the engine should be fine and won't need any major work".
 
:
2020 CX-5 AWD
Based on the dealer service notes, looks like they replaced the oil control valve. From the service notes:

"B0226DrX OCV for Hydraulic Variable Valve Timing"
25035 WM (not sure what this line item is)
PYFA-14-440C C00 Valve, Oil Control
PY8W-14-365 Gasket

They found the PSI @4,500 was 26PSI before the fix. After the fix, it it as 36PSI. ....

Totally bewildered by their reported oil pressure results from replacing that part. This translates to VVT affecting the oil pressure for the entire vehicle, and that's not the way it's supposed to work.

In any case, I'd also agree that you should make an attempt to get an extended warranty of the engine.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
Since yours still had 26 at the higher rpm, It is very unlikely that any engine damage occurred.
You’ll never know. See what kind of damage ferro_sk’s 2 months old / 1,118 miles 2018 CX-5 had with the same CEL. At least connecting rod bearings got replaced in addition to many other oil pressure related components.

I had Check Engine Light issue on my new Mazda CX-5 KF too (2.5l petrol engine with cylinder on demand technology, G194). It happend 2 months after buying a car with around 1800km on it. I had not noticed any issue with the engine all looked normal when CEL turned on. I took it to dealership ASAP. They checked oil level and put on diagnostic. They found some error code (I don't have number sorry) but they just reset it, made some test ride and returned car back to me. Problem re-occurred again after around 100km. I took it at the dealership again immediately. They discussed the problem with Mazda support and replaced oil control selenoid valve, oil pump, oil pressure sensor and also connecting rod bearings (metal set conn.rod). It took almost 2 months until I got the car repaired back but it was mostly because it was new model, new engine and they did not have required spare parts on stock in EU at that time. When they got all spare parts it took 1 day to replace them. Now I have around 11000km on it (6 months since the repair) and engine is working fine no any issues so far. I know at least about 2 other people in our country (Slovakia) who had the same issue and some people in Germany reported the issue as well.
 

yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
Totally bewildered by their reported oil pressure results from replacing that part. This translates to VVT affecting the oil pressure for the entire vehicle, and that's not the way it's supposed to work.

In any case, I'd also agree that you should make an attempt to get an extended warranty of the engine.
The oil pressure solenoid valve PYFA-14-440C the dealer replaced is the correct OCV. It located on the side of the engine and controlling the oil pressure by the pump in two stages.

The OCV related to VVT, part no. PE01-14-420A, is located on the engine top and that’s the one prone to leak.

See post #817 and #819 above for more details.
 
Thanks for all the info and advice. The CEL light came on 3x over the last 3 years. Each time, the light was on for about 10 mins then went away. Car seems to drive fine and no strange behavior/noise from engine. Ill monitor it and see how things go. Thank you all again!
 
:
2018 CX-5 Sport
You’ll never know. See what kind of damage ferro_sk’s 2 months old / 1,118 miles 2018 CX-5 had with the same CEL. At least connecting rod bearings got replaced in addition to many other oil pressure related components.
I think ferro_sk's low oil pressure was a lot more serious for those bearings to be noisy and needing replacement.
 
:
2020 CX-5 AWD
The oil pressure solenoid valve PYFA-14-440C the dealer replaced is the correct OCV. It located on the side of the engine and controlling the oil pressure by the pump in two stages.

The OCV related to VVT, part no. PE01-14-420A, is located on the engine top and that’s the one prone to leak.

See post #817 and #819 above for more details.
I was being sent down the wrong road by this Mazda online parts site, which incorrectly included 'VVT' in the description for PYFA-14-440C.
https://www.jimellismazdaparts.com/productSearch.aspx?searchTerm=PYFA-14-440C

So, yes I agree with you that they did replace the solenoid that does participate in controlling oil pressure for the entire vehicle, and the subsequent improved oil pressure that they found does make sense.

Here's one other noteworthy thing about this low oil pressure issue, from the recent Mazda TSB 01-004/21. The TSB description states: "Contamination in the engine oil may cause the engine oil solenoid valve to become stuck, resulting in improper operation of the oil pump and improper oil pressure. The control software of the PCM has been modified to eliminate this concern. In addition, the production process has been modified to reduce contamination in the engine oil solenoid valve, oil pump, spacer and oil filter."

This statement, and particularly that last sentence jumps off the page at me. Mazda is making a de facto admission to having engine cleaning issues in their production process, and it's anyone's guess which, and how many vehicles were impacted by this.

One particularly unsettling scenario would be engines which had enough manufacturing debris to partially clog the engine oil solenoid, oil passageway, etc.; but not quite enough blockage to trip the low pressure oil threshold, set the DTC, and turn on the CEL. IMO it must be at least a possibility that some of our vehicles have been running with low (i.e. below spec) oil pressure for the entire life of the vehicle. If it wasn't such a RPITA to remove the oil pressure sensor (without access to a lift), I'd be inclined to test the oil pressure of our vehicles with a manual gauge.

So this becomes yet another unhappy piece of information related to these engines that gets added to the ever growing collection.
 

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yrwei52

2016 Mazda CX-5 GT AWD w/Tech Pkg
Contributor
:
Plano, Texas, USA
I was being sent down the wrong road by this Mazda online parts site, which incorrectly included 'VVT' in the description for PYFA-14-440C.
https://www.jimellismazdaparts.com/productSearch.aspx?searchTerm=PYFA-14-440C
Looks like the info on that particular Mazda online parts website is not trustworthy.

B9D8C818-A70B-4DE6-8994-660E2C5D190C.jpeg

18C1754E-BEDB-4D41-BACA-AD14CB93D724.jpeg

29B6A27B-E49F-4B9B-801E-1C6D93813877.jpeg


Actually I believe these oil pressure related issues and TSBs are all started from the added “feature” of cylinder deactivation. This oil control valve is a new version for 2.5L with CD. The overall oil pressure has been adjusted down for CD. The revised PCM from the safety recall also is trying to adjust the oil pressure in certain situations to prevent th rocker arm falling. The revised switchable hydraulic lash adjusters for valve clearance noise are also related to oil pressure. All of these problems do not exist on the 2.5L without the CD.
 
:
2017 Mazda 6 Sport
I was being sent down the wrong road by this Mazda online parts site, which incorrectly included 'VVT' in the description for PYFA-14-440C.
https://www.jimellismazdaparts.com/productSearch.aspx?searchTerm=PYFA-14-440C

So, yes I agree with you that they did replace the solenoid that does participate in controlling oil pressure for the entire vehicle, and the subsequent improved oil pressure that they found does make sense.

Here's one other noteworthy thing about this low oil pressure issue, from the recent Mazda TSB 01-004/21. The TSB description states: "Contamination in the engine oil may cause the engine oil solenoid valve to become stuck, resulting in improper operation of the oil pump and improper oil pressure. The control software of the PCM has been modified to eliminate this concern. In addition, the production process has been modified to reduce contamination in the engine oil solenoid valve, oil pump, spacer and oil filter."

This statement, and particularly that last sentence jumps off the page at me. Mazda is making a de facto admission to having engine cleaning issues in their production process, and it's anyone's guess which, and how many vehicles were impacted by this.

One particularly unsettling scenario would be engines which had enough manufacturing debris to partially clog the engine oil solenoid, oil passageway, etc.; but not quite enough blockage to trip the low pressure oil threshold, set the DTC, and turn on the CEL. IMO it must be at least a possibility that some of our vehicles have been running with low (i.e. below spec) oil pressure for the entire life of the vehicle. If it wasn't such a RPITA to remove the oil pressure sensor (without access to a lift), I'd be inclined to test the oil pressure of our vehicles with a manual gauge.

So this becomes yet another unhappy piece of information related to these engines that gets added to the ever growing collection.
I don't take that to mean contamination during production
 
Dealer did do the TSB for leaking engine oil a week before the 2 low oil pressure warnings came on. Maybe excess sealant went and clogged up the valve a bit.
 
:
2020 CX-5 AWD
contamination during use. Esp since it's affecting vehicles made in both Japan and Mexico
The TSB from Mazda states: In addition, the production process has been modified to reduce contamination in the engine oil solenoid valve, oil pump, spacer and oil filter." So how can a modification to the production process have anything whatsoever to do with contamination during use, which would occur after it leaves the factory? (and also, where would contamination during use be coming from?).

If you're suggesting poor oil maintenance on the part of owners, although that's always a possibe reason for engine issues, there can be no connection between whatever modification Mazda made to their production process and subsequent oil maintenance.
 
:
2017 Mazda 6 Sport
The TSB from Mazda states: In addition, the production process has been modified to reduce contamination in the engine oil solenoid valve, oil pump, spacer and oil filter." So how can a modification to the production process have anything whatsoever to do with contamination during use, which would occur after it leaves the factory? (and also, where would contamination during use be coming from?).

If you're suggesting poor oil maintenance on the part of owners, although that's always a possibe reason for engine issues, there can be no connection between whatever modification Mazda made to their production process and subsequent oil maintenance.
well it looks like the fix is an updated part and software update to the PCM/ECU. I'm not sure. The verbage is a little ambiguous