CX-5: How's the AWD do in winter? Is it fun to drive?

[MikeM.]

It does tell us that the CX-5's AWD system will refuse to work in some situations.

I don't know why you say such irrational things. The AWD is working exactly as designed and described by Mazda. The rear wheels can never apply more torque than the front wheels are getting. Even when the vehicle is not moving and the front wheels are spinning, the rear wheels have torque applied to them in an amount equal to the torque applied to the front wheels.

This is not a problem in normal winter driving on slippery snow and ice covered roads and this type of AWD has important advantages over more complicated and heavier systems that can apply more torque to the rear. Specifically, the Mazda implementation does not cause the slight binding between front and rear that can initiate a slide on an icy corner at higher speeds. This is a huge advantage for safely covering ground on treacherous roads. This is one significant reason why the Mazda is one of the better choices for winter travel. There are other reasons why the Mazda excels under conditions that are treacherous for lesser vehicles that I have detailed in other answers.

I think you just don't have enough winter driving experience under enough challenging conditions to know what matters and what doesn't. Your priorities are misplaced and I think this is explained by basing your opinions more on meaningless video demonstrations rather than on actual experience using a wide variety of tires and vehicles with various AWD systems under real world winter conditions. Previously, I owned an AWD Subaru. There are not many places in the world that regularly get the kind of extreme winter weather that I've experienced on a very regular basis for a number of decades.

 

[yugrus]

No, my remark was about the grassy hill.
Another possible explanation is that rear wheels were not spinning because they had a grip, but 50% of torque that was applied to them was not enough to propell the car up the hill, while another 50% was digging the hole up front. The car was just burning the AWD coupling.
The center coupling sends the torque 50-50 to both differentials when front wheels begin to spin. Then the torque is applied to whatever wheel on the axle that has less grip, natural for the open differential. Unless TCS takes care of that phenomenon really quick, and stays right on top of it. Who knows what these guys were messing with, and what condition their ABS sensors were in.
Just shooting in the dark...

 

[yugrus]

My Tahoe has honest 4wd, with rear locking diff. I had a chance to compare that to my wife's CX-5 in quite heavy winter storm last year in Southern Ontario. Granted, the surface was flat, but I drove both literally plowing mounts of fresh snow over old ice, at night. Both vehicles faired excellent. But I had to watch the Tahoe in the corners, as front-rear binding is really dangerous in turns at any speed above the crawl. Mazda does not have that problem and feels as confident in straight line.
Granted, I have Blizzak WS70's on Mazda and Cooper Discover AT/W on Tahoe.

 

[MikeM.]

My Tahoe has honest 4wd, with rear locking diff. I had a chance to compare that to my wife's CX-5 in quite heavy winter storm last year in Southern Ontario. Granted, the surface was flat, but I drove both literally plowing mounts of fresh snow over old ice, at night. Both vehicles faired excellent. But I had to watch the Tahoe in the corners, as front-rear binding is really dangerous in turns at any speed above the crawl. Mazda does not have that problem and feels as confident in straight line.

Exactly. A Subaru will not be nearly as bad as your Tahoe but the effect is still there.

BTW, when the front wheels of the CX-5 are spinning and the rears have traction and are not spinning, the electronic multi-plate clutch is fully engaged and is not burning up. It's the open center differential that's splitting 50% of the power front/rear. And this does not stress it. If you want to move forward, simply apply brakes simultaneously with the throttle. This will transfer an amount of additional torque to the rear wheels that is equal in amount to the torque consumed by the front brakes. I've never needed to do this because the CX-5 AWD is essentially unstoppable in the snow and ice when equipped with winter tires. This technique would only come in handy in a really extreme situation but it's there if you ever need it.

 

[yugrus]

Umm Mike... There's no center diff at all. Only electronically controlled CLUTCH... That's the only thing that transfers the torque to the rear axle. And the computer varies the pressure between the plates of the clutch, thus transferring 0-50% of torque to the rear.
Your brake-gas technique overrides torque control system, sometimes it is more effective then computer control.
Looks like I was wrong, the rear diff is self-locking on CX-5. I should dig deeper.

 

[Unobtanium]

Exactly. A Subaru will not be nearly as bad as your Tahoe but the effect is still there.

BTW, when the front wheels of the CX-5 are spinning and the rears have traction and are not spinning, the electronic multi-plate clutch is fully engaged and is not burning up. It's the open center differential that's splitting 50% of the power front/rear. And this does not stress it. If you want to move forward, simply apply brakes simultaneously with the throttle. This will transfer an amount of additional torque to the rear wheels that is equal in amount to the torque consumed by the front brakes. I've never needed to do this because the CX-5 AWD is essentially unstoppable in the snow and ice when equipped with winter tires. This technique would only come in handy in a really extreme situation but it's there if you ever need it.

Would flooring it also work, as in mud, to get all 4 moving?

 

[Unobtanium]

Umm Mike... There's no center diff at all. Only electronically controlled CLUTCH... That's the only thing that transfers the torque to the rear axle. And the computer varies the pressure between the plates of the clutch, thus transferring 0-50% of torque to the rear.
Your brake-gas technique overrides torque control system, sometimes it is more effective then computer control.
Looks like I was wrong, the rear diff is self-locking on CX-5. I should dig deeper.

There is a transfer case. Costs 115 to service.

 

[yugrus]

Yeah, the clutch resides in transfer case...

 

[Unobtanium]

Yeah, the clutch resides in transfer case...

Not in the rear diff?

 

[yugrus]

You've got me there. Don't know what I was thinking. The "coupling component" is at the rear diff. Rear diff is not LSD or locking, it us the open diff. Transfer case is at the transaxle, spinning the propeller shaft. No center diff, the transfer case gets torque for the propeller shaft from RH front drive shaft.

 

[maxwax]

I'm completely satisfied with how my CX-5 handled in the snow this last winter. I drove in a variety of conditions including two nights of 8-11" drifts and it was capable and thrilling and I never got stuck.

There is no way anyone can arguing anything otherwise to change my real world experience. I have reality not opinion on my side.

You can argue tires vs AWD vs driver technique but I'd say you need all of them. So just equip your AWD CX-5 with good tires, learn to drive in tough conditions and go enjoy life!



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[Unobtanium]

Glad to hear all of the positive end user reviews!

 

[davefr]

I'm completely satisfied with how my CX-5 handled in the snow this last winter. I drove in a variety of conditions including two nights of 8-11" drifts and it was capable and thrilling and I never got stuck.

There is no way anyone can arguing anything otherwise to change my real world experience. I have reality not opinion on my side.

You can argue tires vs AWD vs driver technique but I'd say you need all of them. So just equip your AWD CX-5 with good tires, learn to drive in tough conditions and go enjoy life!



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What are your recommendations for good winter tires for the CX-5? I assume the OEM tires are not a good choice for winter??

is there a good winter tire that you can actually run all year?

Should I go with the model with 17" or 19" rims?

TIA

 

[inlinev]

What are your recommendations for good winter tires for the CX-5? I assume the OEM tires are not a good choice for winter??

is there a good winter tire that you can actually run all year?

Should I go with the model with 17" or 19" rims?

TIA

Not that you asked my opinion, but this is a topic I have been researching so I'll chime in

I'm planning to get a set of Michelin x-ice 2 tires for our cx5 in 17 inch. I'm very likely going to get the michelins because of their reputation and I know some people who have used them with great results. Most important though, the x-ice is the only one to offer a mileage warranty of 40k miles. While I take this with a grain of salt, it does lead me to believe they have more confidence in the longevity of these tires. No other manufacturer that I'm aware of offers a tread warranty on snow tires.

I'm going with the 17s because of cost. Really no other reason and there is nothing wrong with doing that. You can stick with the 19s but the price really jumps.

 

[Unobtanium]

Not that you asked my opinion, but this is a topic I have been researching so I'll chime in

I'm planning to get a set of Michelin x-ice 2 tires for our cx5 in 17 inch. I'm very likely going to get the michelins because of their reputation and I know some people who have used them with great results. Most important though, the x-ice is the only one to offer a mileage warranty of 40k miles. While I take this with a grain of salt, it does lead me to believe they have more confidence in the longevity of these tires. No other manufacturer that I'm aware of offers a tread warranty on snow tires.

I'm going with the 17s because of cost. Really no other reason and there is nothing wrong with doing that. You can stick with the 19s but the price really jumps.

Just looked at those! Seriously tempted to buy a set if my LX20's don't work for me in the snow/ice next year!

 

[MikeM.]

I'm planning to get a set of Michelin x-ice 2 tires for our cx5 in 17 inch. I'm very likely going to get the michelins because of their reputation and I know some people who have used them with great results. Most important though, the x-ice is the only one to offer a mileage warranty of 40k miles. While I take this with a grain of salt, it does lead me to believe they have more confidence in the longevity of these tires. No other manufacturer that I'm aware of offers a tread warranty on snow tires.

I would assume that a company offering a tread life warranty on winter tires has increased the tire price to cover all the warranty claims or they limit the months the tire may be used and have strict documentation requirements. I say this because there is not a decent winter tire out there that can handle being run fast on hot roads without wearing out very quickly.

I ran the original Michelin X-Ice on my FWD Volvo and it's a very good winter tire but I wouldn't recommend it very strongly for an AWD CX-5. The tread pattern of version 2 looks very similar to version 1 but I imagine version 2 is at least as good as version 1 however I can only speak directly to the latter.

They were exceptional on a FWD car because their strongest suit was acceleration/hill climbing in the snow and ice. At this they were exceptional Snow/ice cornering and braking was also a little above average. But they were not very satisfying on bare or bare/wet pavement and I think this would be even more so on a CX-5 compared to my large Volvo sedan. Let's face it, the AWD CX-5 is not going to have trouble accelerating/hill climbing with any decent winter tire so this is not the most important quality you should be looking for.

A good AWD winter tire for someone who doesn't need to do anything heroic (like winter rally racing or climbing a super steep driveway covered in ice) and who spends half of their winter miles on bare or bare/wet pavement is the Goodyear UltraGrip Ice WRT. Unfortunately, it appears to be sold out in the 225/65/17 size at all the major tire retailers nationwide. Probably because of the unusual winter experienced east of the Rockies. I'm guessing it will become more available near the middle of summer.

I'm going with the 17s because of cost. Really no other reason and there is nothing wrong with doing that. You can stick with the 19s but the price really jumps.

Not only that but there is no performance advantage on snow/ice with a lower profile. Quite the opposite and the more comfortable ride of the 17's is a benefit. Additionally, where I drive in the winter it's somewhat common for large frozen snow and ice potholes to develop. Your suspension will thank you if the tires can absorb some of the pounding before it gets to the bushings, etc.

 

[inlinev]

Mike- thanks for the feedback. To clarify, I only intend to run the x-ice December through April. Will go back to the all seasons otherwise. The michelins are also the same price as the blizzaks, which offer no tread wear warranty. Again I'm not concerned about a claim, just feel more confident that Michelin thinks they will last longer. Tire rack reviewers also indicate it has lasted them longer than blizzaks. I will take a look at your suggestion as pro reviews have also expressed a decrease in wet stopping. This is important to me as our area gets cleared quick and there is a lot of salt use leading to slush and puddles galore. The only thing I read differently is that the x-ice was better designed for dry winter driving, feeling similarly poised and rigid as all seasons, as opposed to say the blizzaks which reviewers tend to comment as spongy.

 

[Unobtanium]

I would assume that a company offering a tread life warranty on winter tires has increased the tire price to cover all the warranty claims or they limit the months the tire may be used and have strict documentation requirements. I say this because there is not a decent winter tire out there that can handle being run fast on hot roads without wearing out very quickly.
They are only $130'ish each.

I ran the original Michelin X-Ice on my FWD Volvo and it's a very good winter tire but I wouldn't recommend it very strongly for an AWD CX-5. The tread pattern of version 2 looks very similar to version 1 but I imagine version 2 is at least as good as version 1 however I can only speak directly to the latter.

They were exceptional on a FWD car because their strongest suit was acceleration/hill climbing in the snow and ice. At this they were exceptional Snow/ice cornering and braking was also a little above average. But they were not very satisfying on bare or bare/wet pavement and I think this would be even more so on a CX-5 compared to my large Volvo sedan. Let's face it, the AWD CX-5 is not going to have trouble accelerating/hill climbing with any decent winter tire so this is not the most important quality you should be looking for.
I don't think any tire that will remain soft at sub-zero temps will offer any appreciable treadlife for daily use. Seems like the Ice 2 is a compromise?

A good AWD winter tire for someone who doesn't need to do anything heroic (like winter rally racing or climbing a super steep driveway covered in ice) and who spends half of their winter miles on bare or bare/wet pavement is the Goodyear UltraGrip Ice WRT. Unfortunately, it appears to be sold out in the 225/65/17 size at all the major tire retailers nationwide. Probably because of the unusual winter experienced east of the Rockies. I'm guessing it will become more available near the middle of summer.



Not only that but there is no performance advantage on snow/ice with a lower profile. Quite the opposite and the more comfortable ride of the 17's is a benefit. Additionally, where I drive in the winter it's somewhat common for large frozen snow and ice potholes to develop. Your suspension will thank you if the tires can absorb some of the pounding before it gets to the bushings, etc.

I've wondered about the 17 vs. 19's in general, if one rides better than the other. I've owned cars with rims ranging from 15 to 19" rims, and never really noticed a difference I could attribute to rim size except the larger rim has a larger contact patch without adding width, which leads to a much better steering feel.

If I went with a dedicated winter tire, I would probably run them from Dec 15 until Jan 15 or so. So not too much wear.

 

[inlinev]

So the goodyear ultra grip WRT is not available in 225/65/17. Tire rack says they come in 225/60/17. So that will lead to a speed deviation, but the load rating works.

 

[MikeM.]

So the goodyear ultra grip WRT is not available in 225/65/17. Tire rack says they come in 225/60/17. So that will lead to a speed deviation, but the load rating works.

That size is sold out at every retailer I checked. I bought my 225/65/17 Ultra Grip Ice WRT's from Tire Rack and I suspect they are just trying to clear out their other leftover stock. Winter tires are manufactured seasonally, I bet in another few months the new stock will show up.