Cutting out the factory speaker grills...

[chuyler1]

It has come to my understanding that plastic with small holes cut in it is not acoustically transparent. For my install, the factory grills have got to go.

The problem is, I can't find any info on how to go about doing this. I know the obvious...drill or cut out the grill and enlargen the hole if necessary. For my case, I want a 6.5" speaker in there.

What I'm not sure about is, how to go about connecting the plastic hole with the speaker in a way that will allow a grill to easily pop in and out of the opening. The overall goal is to have it look stock with the grill on, but when I take the grill off, the speaker is recessed inside the hole with a smooth fiberglass trim that forms a sorta port-hole.

I have been going over ideas in my head but most of my fiberglass experience is irrelevant because the two pieces I am connecting cannot be connected when it is finished. In other words...the resulting fiberglassed door panel must look like it is attached to the speaker...but the speaker needs to be attached to a baffle which is attached to the door skin. Catch my drift?

I would like to do this with as little modification of the stock door panel as possible. I plan on painting the newly fiberglassed port-hole silver to match the rest of the P5's trim.

The picture below is sort of what I'm going for...only I don't want to be fabricating an entirely new door panel, and I don't want to have to vinyl the door panel when I'm done. Anyone got any suggestions on how I can go about this?

 

[Rider69]

That would look sweet but I would think to do it you would need to remake the bottom half of the door panel. Which would not be a bad thing, with losing the map pockets and such.

 

[MrEdz]

That install is pretty sharp, what kind of car is that? It kinda looks like a VW Jetta..

 

[chuyler1]

Close, it is a GTI...
http://www.caraudiomag.com/v_features/0208cae_gti/

Yeah...I really want to avoid making a new bottom panel...there must be a way.

 

[sndsgood]

let me see if i can explain this.....


okay make a baffle board for the door to hold your speaker. now make a trim piece around it that is shaped exactly like the hole u will put in your door panel. now mount that on your baffle. not take those two piece and fiberglass from the trim ring down to the speaker hole, couple layers, bondo sand sand sand and paint etc. not cut your hole on the door panel if u plan on rewrapping the bottom of the door. cut the hole and don't worry about the material. if u want the same material u have to be very careful. and cut the backing while not cutting the material. it can be done. once the holes is cut just gently pull the material back out of your way some, and sand the hole opening so it's perfect, spray some glue on the back side and wrap your material around the hole. now when u put the door panel back on the opening in the door panel should match up to the baffle piece if u want it to curve out any like in the above pic, youlle have to pull the material off the door and build it up and recover it. hope this gives u a better idea.

 

[chuyler1]

I'm getting confused with what you are calling the "backing" and what you are calling the "material".

I've got a grasp on creating the baffle and your instructions will come at some point during the process, I'm just not sure when. I don't want to wrap the final panel in vinyl so I will have to be very carefull cutting it and I'm asuming that fine-grit sandpaper will smooth out the cut to a finished look (hopefully). The cut will be slightly larger (or taller) than the original grill to accomodate a 6.5" speaker but it will still have a squared off look to it...curving down and inward to the round shape of the speaker. I don't need a super-professional look that hides the screws for the speaker (like the above picture) so that may make things easier.

Your instructions gave me an idea...see if you can follow...

What if, I create the baffle to fill the 5x7 hole out of say 1/2" mdf (to provide some more mounting depth for a 2.75" deep speaker) and cut the mounting hole so the speaker drops right in. Then I create a second baffle out of 1/4" MDF that is only slightly larger than the outside diameter of the speaker. It will look like a 3/4" wide ring and will go in between the speaker and the baffle. I line the baffle and the ring up and drill the holes for mounting the speaker. and do a test fit.

Next, I cut the hole in the door panel making sure it is large enough to accomodate the new position of the 6.5" driver.

Once the hole is correct I remove the door panel, the speaker and the 3/4" ring. I place a layer of tin-foil over the baffle so nothing will stick to it in the next step.

I glue a piece of speaker grill cloth (because it is thinner than fleece) to the inside of the door panel so it covers the hole. I won't stretch it because I will need the extra fabric later. I will have to use strong glue so the cloth bonds tightly to the very edges of the hole.

I place the door panel back on the door and take the 3/4" trim ring and push it into the hole, line it up with the baffle and screw it down w/o the speaker. This will stretch the cloth down to the baffle but it will not bond to it because I covered it with tin-foil. I fiberglass the cloth to the trim ring while the door panel is in place. When I pull it out, I will have the perfect shape. I will use bondo to smooth it out and get rid of the ridge made by the 3/4" trim ring.

Assuming everything above worked, when I mount the speaker to the trim ring, the screws will go through the ring and sink into the baffle.

There are three things that I'm not sure about in this process:
1) sanding the bondo will be a b**** when it is attached to the door panel that I don't want to ruin.
2) painting the finished product will require very carefull masking
3) Most importantly...because the door panel is only about 1/8" thick, there is no way to pressure-fit a speaker grill. I need at least a 1/4-1/2" recession to fabricate a grill that will pop in and make the whole thing look stock. The only work around I can think of is to take small pieces of 1/4" MDF and line them around the opening of the hole before I glue down the grill cloth. However, I don't see this lining up smoothly and creating the contour I want when I fiberglass it to the baffle.

So what do you think? Can you visualize it?

 

[sndsgood]

think i get what your saying and my concern is the same as yours. i'd be worried about the doorpanel.


go with the route i suggested and the only thing u have to worry about is the hole u cut in the door.


when i was saying backing basically what i'm saying is. that u need a hole in the door panel. and if u dont want to redo the vinyl or leather covering on the door panel. youlle need to cut a small hole in the material (not sure what u have so i'll just say leather. cut the leather smaller then the hole u need, say u need a 6" hole. what i would do is cut the leather in the center of the hole. and then cut the leather to say around a 4" diameter hole. now that it is cut, i'll pull the leather away from the panel as much as i can without pulling up to much. now i have room to get to the heavy backing of the door panel itself. i can carefully cut my 6" hole from the back, making sure not to hit the leather i had pulled away from the door. now i'll take some sandpaper and smooth the edges. then carefully use spray adhesive to spray the edge of the hole and around the edges were i pulled the leather away from the door. now i'll lay the leather down and put some small relief cuts around the edge of the leather so i can wrap it right around the edge of the circle and youlle have a perfectly wrapped hole.

now if u make where the edge of the fiberglass is the same exact size as your hole. when u put the door panel on it should match up. to do this put your baffle on and your speaker on the baffle. now cut a hole in a piece of mdf just big enough to fit around the speaker, and bigger then the hole in the panel. glue it or screw it down temporarily and throw your door panel on. now take a pencil and trace around the edge of the new hole in the door panel. this will be the inside edge of your where your fiberglass will be. this way you can just keep the door panel out of the way when your dealing with the fiberglass, and u won't have to worry about it at all when u paint the piece, and then down the line u can always just change the piece out a bit when u get the need to change things around a bit. and if u really got bored with it u could pop it out and sell it to someone on here with the same type car.

 

[sndsgood]

oh and as for a cover piece try www.selectproducts.com or www.partsexpress.com they sell small rubber type grommets for making speaker covers, kinda like home stereo covers where u have like a rubber female piece that would be mounted on the door or baffle piece and then a male connector u mount on the back side of your grill. thats always an option if u can't pressure fit.

 

[Poseur]

You could skip the whole nasty taking a saw or dremel or whathave you to your doorpanel issue and simply make some kickpanels... I'm thinking this is getting more and more appealing to me. Plus this'll take away a good part of the pain of sound-deadening your doors. Hmm. Maybe I'll try to digup some spare doorpanels to play with...

 

[chuyler1]

I already went the kick-panel train of thought. Not gonna happen. I'm 6'3" and drive a stick so I need all the space down there. My original plan was to do 6"-4"-1" 3-ways but I figure this is the next best thing.

I will keep the rubber grommet thingies in mind. The P5 doesn't have any material over that part of the door so it will just be plastic that I am cutting.

I think I follow you now, its tough to visualize these things. When it all goes down, I will have my digital camera ready to take shots of every part.

The thing with the P5 is that the stock grill is not on a flat plane and it is not parallel with the door shell. Your idea will not guarantee a tight connection between the fiberglassed port-hole and the door shell. However, it may be the only way to do it right. Because the door panel is not covered with material, there is no margin for error like adding some foam and wrapping the vinyl around it.

Maybe If I used a softer material for the outer piece you described and I get it to conform to the inside of the door panel...then trace the outline and cut it out...then use some scrap pieces of mdf of various hieghts to glue it to the baffle...then finally fiberglass the baffle and the outer piece after the glue drys and I can take it out of the car.

 

[sndsgood]

if the door panel bows. tape some aluminum foil on the backside of the door panel and cover the door itself and protect everything and then spray some expanding foam over a piece of wood stick your door panel on. let it dry and pull it off and the foam should be shaped to match the door. just be very careful with that stuff not to get it on anything.

 

[chuyler1]

Hmm, now theres an idea...the expanding foam is pretty easy to mold right? I've never tried it but I've heard about people using it.

 

[MisterT]

I'll just say if you know what you are doing and plan on doing some side panels with fiberglass, I would do it. Otherwise, you could **** it up and it would look like s***. (boom01)

 

[chuyler1]

Side panels? not following you there.

I've been going through www.caraudiomag.com to see what others have done. After taking another close look at my door panel...there is very little margin for error. I am going to have to mount the 6.5" slightly above where the 5x7 is becuase there is no extra room below where the grill is now...not even the 3/4" that I will most likely need.

I'll know better when my speakers come in but here's my new plan:

Make the baffle for the speaker out of 1/2" mdf. Cut out the grill and expand the hole at most 1/4". Put the speaker in the door and put the door panel back on. Cut a piece of poster board into a long 2" wide strip. Line the posterboard around the edge of the opening so it creates a pseudo wall that is perpendicular to the baffle. I will know at this point whether the hole needs to be enlargened. If it does I will have two options.
1) Just create a grill cover that pops into the new opening and forget about doing anything under it.
2) Create a new baffle that is about 1" thick (2 x 1/2" mdf) that will allow me to place the speaker in the stock hole but 1/2" to a 3/4" higher in the door. Cut the door panel so I can place the posterboard around the outside of the opening w/o contacting the speaker.

If I go with 2), I can then glue the posterboard in place. I will probably double wrap it for strength and put some strong glue inbetween the layers so when it dries it will be stiff. When it is dry I will trace around the protruding edge and cut it off so it is flush with the door panel. Then I can fill the inside with bondo to smooth it out...a layer of grill cloth and fiberglass may be necessary beforehand to get the bondo to stick. THen I can paint or vinyl it depending upon how clean the bondo stage comes out.

Finally, for either step 1 or 2, I need to find some sort of rubber molding that I can wrap around the edge of the plastic door panel. I had a quick thought which I abruptly disconsidered which would be to use that cheezy chrome door highlight s*** they sell at Pep-Boys. I know you've seen it before. People install it around the edges of their doors and trunks. It comes in chrome and gold (shudder). Maybe if I could paint it silver to match my interior it would work...but I would rather find something similar that is black rubber...I'll go wandering through Home Depot.

So with the molding around the edge, it will create a clean line with the painted/vinyled portal I created. The last step is to get some metal mesh and grill cloth and fabricate a grill that will pop in nice and snug with the rubber molding. Anyone know the best place to get metal mesh? I can't really tell which one would be good on www.selectproducts.com and the prices seem kinda high.

How does that sound?

 

[trbomp5]

did anyone every get this mod done yet? Any pics?

 

[chuyler1]

Seeing as my last post was yesterday and I am still working out the details of the procedure, the answer is no.

I'm still waiting for my speakers to come in the mail so nothing can begin until they arrive anyway.

Is that your system in your avatar? Got any more pictures?

 

[trbomp5]

ya, a bigger one, the doors in progress (old pic) and the center console (had a paint supply place match the paint to the Pioneer stereo).
Usually my car is a lot cleaner than this, but these were taken when it was still not being driven yet, and had got it back from the body shop. I bought it totaled. (last pic)

 

[sndsgood]

would be easier for me if i actually had the car your working on lol.

 

[chuyler1]

Does this help for visualization?
http://www.msprotege.com/members/Andres/How%20to%20door%20speakers/
http://carstereohelp.com/stereoremovalMazdaProtege1FSpk.htm

 

[sndsgood]

yeah that helps some