cp-e "Standback" equipped SPEED3 made *ALMOST* 300hp to the wheels!!
- Thread starter www.cp-e.com
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Actually, the XEDE comes with a base tune from BEGI that was was running. The reason my numbers are slightly lower (5-10hp~) is because of the climate difference. Im in Hawaii, BEGI is in texas. We also have slightly lower octane gas available.www.cp-e.com said:You guys are bringing up some legitimate points, but I just want to get one point across and then I'll leave you guys alone
A piggyback tuning controller is designed to control engine functions, which should result in some power gain when tuned properly. You can stick an engine controller and lose power if you don't tune the car well. So the power gains are not a reflection of how good the engine controller is, but rather how the car was tuned. So comparing engine controllers based on one-off dyno's is a risky game to play. Here's an illustration of my point:
Here Nutari was kind enough to post dyno graphs of his tuning sessions with the SPEED3. His car isn't stock (I saw an ETS top mount intercooler but no mods list) and he didn't make as much power as BEGi. But why? They're the same car, the same brand dyno, and the same engine controller. The reason is because the cars were tuned differently. The tune makes horsepower, not the engine controller. In my opinion, the ease of use, functionality, cost, and realiability are how an engine controller should be judged, and not how much horsepower someone made using it.
Anyway, I was excited to share these numbers because it was the highest dyno I have seento date, and even better yet, it was on a tune that's suitable for a daily driver. There are no more boost spikes with our smart boost control, our unit got rid of the fuel cut our customer was experiencing, and he's overjoyed by the final result. We couldn't ask for more
Anyway, if you're curious to know what our Standback is capable of, I'll be happy to share some info with you guys. We also have the part numbers of the SPEED3 connectors, so we should be releasing a PnP option as well.
Questions? Comments? Flames? (shrug)
Jordan
TMIC was my only mod. I also did a stock run with JUST the XEDE and the numbers matched up.
the a/f look a little scary . arent they supposed to be around 11.5 to be safe ?
www.cp-e.com said:(cabpatch)
We recently provided a Standback to a loyal customer of ours who owns a SPEED3. He had all of our products installed on his car (XCel CAI, off-road turboback exhaust), as well as an ETS top mount intercooler. Part of the reason why we gave him the Standback was because he recently started experiencing a fuel cut under heavy load, and the Standback has been able to eliminate the fuel cut on SPEED6's in the past, so we thought we'd give it a shot on his SPEED3. We also wanted to see if the Standback could add a little more "ooomph" to his ride. We were successful on both fronts as he made 297hp and 303tq to the wheels, and without any fuel cut!
If you're curious to learn a little more about the nature of the fuel cut on this vehicle, we have some information linked here:
http://tinyurl.com/ys55gb
I'll be on and off the boards all day, so if you have any questions, please feel free to post them up!
Jordan
desperado-c
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed3
www.cp-e.com said:
Quit teasing us with the PnP stuff, Jordan. It's like a freakin' wet T-shirt contest without the water. What did you mean in the other thread (somewhere) where you said the PnP board is now the issue?
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We were very excited about the results we got. Cp-e has been great with providing amazing products as well as unsurpassed support for everything they sell! Just to clarify though, I don't have a full turboback exhaust on the car, just the CP-e downpipe. The run previous to that one made more torque and a little less hp. It was 293whp and 315wtq. The car is very strong and a blast to drive!! Keep up the great work CP-E!!
www.cp-e.com
Member
Thanks for all of the feedback guys!
In order to assemble a PnP package, you need the factory male and female connectors. That way you can plug the original connectors into the Standback, and then plug the Standback into the factory ECU. But finding the stock connectors is surprisingly difficult, especially when you don't have any part numbers to go by. So we put forth a lot of effort and found part numbers for all of the connectors for the SPEED3 and the SPEED6. Now we know which connectors we need to buy, but the manufacturer has told us that the lead time in manufacturing the connectors is between 12-15 weeks! We received this quote about two weeks ago, so we still have about three months until the connectors are in our hands.
So, while we're waiting on the connectors, we're moving on to our next project, which is the second generation Standback. The 2nd-gen Standback will control the throttle plate (among other things) which we believe to be the key to unlocking the potential of this vehicle. Lot's of good things to come! (headbang)
Thanks a lot!!
Although we don't have any immediate plans for the regular 3, I wouldn't be surprised if the Standback made its way over to that car in the future. I'm sorry I don't have better news for you!
Jordan
In order to assemble a PnP package, you need the factory male and female connectors. That way you can plug the original connectors into the Standback, and then plug the Standback into the factory ECU. But finding the stock connectors is surprisingly difficult, especially when you don't have any part numbers to go by. So we put forth a lot of effort and found part numbers for all of the connectors for the SPEED3 and the SPEED6. Now we know which connectors we need to buy, but the manufacturer has told us that the lead time in manufacturing the connectors is between 12-15 weeks! We received this quote about two weeks ago, so we still have about three months until the connectors are in our hands.
So, while we're waiting on the connectors, we're moving on to our next project, which is the second generation Standback. The 2nd-gen Standback will control the throttle plate (among other things) which we believe to be the key to unlocking the potential of this vehicle. Lot's of good things to come! (headbang)
tsunami said:
Thanks a lot!!
Although we don't have any immediate plans for the regular 3, I wouldn't be surprised if the Standback made its way over to that car in the future. I'm sorry I don't have better news for you!
Jordan
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desperado-c
Member
- :
- Mazdaspeed3
matsuda said:
Can't get enough of that funky stuff. Or rather we just want the ability to get the straight stuff, without all the quirky tricks Mazda used to make the torque steer less quirky.
Alright, so PnP is a few months away if you want the current board. If you want throttle control, then the next gen board is x months away given the complexity of that function in the 3 and the need to make it fail safe, right?
www.cp-e.com
Member
matsuda said:
Let me see if I can explain our reasoning for getting control of the throttle.
Consider your engine to be a glorified air pump. In simple terms, the more air in = the more power out. When the intake valve opens and the piston starts it's downward travel, the cylinder's change in displacement is what actually sucks the air into the engine. If you were to restrict the air from entering the cylinder, the vacuum in the cylinder during the intake stroke would increase, and the number of molecules of air actually entering the cylinder would decrease, which results in less total energy when spark plug fires. The engine's ability to ingest as much as as possible is called its volumetric efficiency, and is the ratio of how much air actually entered the cylinder, to the theoretical maximum.
Now think about a previous car you had that wasn't drive by wire (ie. one with a goddarn cable attached to your "go" pedal). Can you remember the difference you felt when you had your foot at half throttle, and when you had your foot to the floor? Was there a big difference? Well that's what the SPEED3 throttle plate does. You have a throttle in the first place because you use it to control engine output, which restricts how much air actually makes it into the engine. So you can consider power output to be roughly proportional to your throttle position. If you follow the red trace below you can see what your throttle does during a WOT run. At about 3000rpm your throttle plate closes to about 50%.
Credit to Chris from AMS for posting this graph!
So even though we may be able to make good power despite the throttle raining on our parade, you stand to make a lot more power with the throttle wide open. Consider that some cars make big horsepower by just replacing their stock throttle with one that's only a few millimeters bigger. This really isn't very different.
Even better yet, you'll be able to run more boost out of that little turbo since the pressure drop across the throttle will be lower. In other words, when the throttle closes like that and your huffer is at full song, the pressure in the intake tract is higher than the pressure in the intake manifold. That means that your turbo is compressing air that will never make it to the engine, and since the turbo is working overtime your air charge temperatures increase too. So if you're trying to get all the available juice out of the stock turbo, then you really do have a lot to gain by making the throttle stay open.
desperado-c said:
You got it (alright)
Jordan
moleodonuts
Member
- :
- 07 Mazdaspeed3 GT
Great news to hear that you guys have head-way on taking over that butterfly valve. I'm sold on the product if/when you guys can offer me that, plug-n-play functionality, and control over my injectors.(birthday)
www.cp-e.com
Member
Thanks guys!
We're hauling azz, and have a lot of great ideas up our sleeves, so stay tuned. I think you guys will be really pleased with where the aftermarket takes this car.
Jordan
We're hauling azz, and have a lot of great ideas up our sleeves, so stay tuned. I think you guys will be really pleased with where the aftermarket takes this car.
Jordan
That is true on a stock MS3 with the older ECU firmware. To avoid getting into a long discussion about this, I could make one suggestion: Try running that graph on the 297 HP car and I promise you it would look nothing like that.www.cp-e.com said:
www.cp-e.com said:
Methinks you got that one a little bit backwards.
In your previous example of how the throttle is closed (or open) 50%, it's not like the turbo is running at full song and the throttle plate is restricting the boost. Think about what it is that causes the turbo to spin faster or slower. Yes, it's the throttle (plate). It doesn't matter if it's drive by wire or not. More air in to the air pump, more hot exhaust gases out which causes the turbine to... ah, you know the rest.
You should drive the 297 HP MS3 and tell me if you have a frown on your face (because of the throttle plate) while it's smoking the tires in the first 3 gears. For most people, that is the bottom line. I find it very hard to believe that this car could make significantly more power and do it safely with the stock mini-turbo.
I would like to ask you as to where you draw the line with the stock turbo (keywords: efficiency, overspinning, seizure, meltdown). I'm sure you can easily imagine an over-zealous enthusiast trying to boost 15 PSI @ 6500 RPM. That scenario sounds like a recipe for disaster.
BTW, I think that you make fine products but someone has to ask the tough questions, right?
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