Cost vs. Power: N/A Built Motor

Status
Not open for further replies.

TXMazdaSpeeder

T is for Turbo
:
2003 Black Mica MSP #566
Awright so im gettin ready to buy another short block and build me an engine from the ground up. I'm looking for fairly reliable, decent amount of power. This is going to be a daily driver and high 14's would be nice. I can use the head off my current motor along with the intake manifold , throttle body, intake, exhaust, etc....


for the purposes im wanting do i want a built n/a motor or do i wanna go ahead and do a low boost turbo setup?
 
achieving high 14 seconds/low 15 seconds from a turbo setup on stock internals while maintaining daily drivability is no problem. I may be biased having gone turbo, but i think forced induction really the way to go on this car.
 
im not going stock internals, internals will be forged, im worried about head gaskets, clutches, transmissions
 
yup yup....i know someone with a very low-boost FI kit running mid-low 14's. FI is the way to go if you're looking for cheap/reliable power. NA engines are nice but will cost you a good bit.
 
i disagree. NA is no less reliable than FI, hell i think FI is a little less reliable.

the thing i love about NA is that you can build up your power as slowly or as quickly as you want, no need to fork out $2k bare minimum to get a el-cheapo FI setup at once.

if i had the opportunity to build up an engine from scratch, i'd build it to be a NA beast, and have n2o on tap. best of both worlds, and when ever you want
 
It's an age-old argument and for the most part you'd be right Twilight, but look at who's done the biggest NA builds...."Tripoint". Their cars only make like 250bhp and the engines cost them $10K. How many $3500 turbo kits are running around on this board making over 260whp??

Buck for buck Forced Induction is the better way to go.
 
I went Twilight's route on my Mustang and now I am commited. The thing is that if you go too far eaither way (FI or NA) it is harder to switch.
 
not neccisarily (sp?). A good NA engine will not be hindered if you decide to add a supercharger to the set-up. Just dont' go all crazy with your compression ratio!

I can't wait to convert one of these NA protege guys to a WOMP kit to see what they think.
 
I say if you have the money go N/A. Everyone as FI cars and Almost noone as a 14 sec NA Pro. The car would be a blast to drive. Thats the way I'm going.
 
Super Matty P said:
not neccisarily (sp?). A good NA engine will not be hindered if you decide to add a supercharger to the set-up. Just dont' go all crazy with your compression ratio!

I can't wait to convert one of these NA protege guys to a WOMP kit to see what they think.

The 342 I am building has 12.5:1 compression and a .621 lift solid roller. I AM committed, though the nitrous is still there (shady) .
 
First, know that to make more horsepower, you need to rev higher and enable your engine to be effecient at that level. Then you need to realize that torque kills drivetrains and RPM kills engines. 15whp brought me from 16.3 to 15.48, so another 10whp and I'll definitely be in the 14s. 140-150whp will be enough to bring a P5 into the 14s I would believe. And if you go with forged internals and 11 or 12:1 compression, larger cams and a stand-alone, you'll be much more than 150whp. There are some limitations as to what Tri-Point was able to do with the FS, but with enough money the sky's the limit. And that's just it. How much power you make has to do with how much money you want to spend. The only thing that's cost any serious amount of money on my car has been my exhaust and cam gears. Advanced ignition timing, my 'exhintake' cam and the RX7 AFM were next to nothing, but obviously you guys don't have those options.

Most people who do FI just have someone else install and tune it. All of us serious NA guys are doing all the planning, building and tuning ourselves, which is extremely satisfying. I've torn down my spare engine with my bare hands, and am going to blueprint it and build it back up again. Not to say FI guys can't do the same, but with NA you have to squeeze every little ounce of power you can out of it, so things like lightened and balanced crankshafts, and headwork are less common since it's so much easier to just find ways of turning up the boost.
 
If you want a challenge, go n/a. If you just want gobs of hp/tq, go f/i. Take it from a guy who has spent over 5 grand, and doesnt have the engine anywhere close to done. At this point, I am determined to do it n/a. But maybe Im just stubborn and stupid with my money. I keep telling myself I could have had lasik surgery for the amount I have spent so far. :)


Blind but (soon to be) fast,
 
Hughes412 said:
I say if you have the money go N/A. Everyone as FI cars and Almost noone as a 14 sec NA Pro. The car would be a blast to drive. Thats the way I'm going.

It's a lot of fun to drive, until you break it.
 
Gen1GT said:
First, know that to make more horsepower, you need to rev higher and enable your engine to be effecient at that level. Then you need to realize that torque kills drivetrains and RPM kills engines. 15whp brought me from 16.3 to 15.48, so another 10whp and I'll definitely be in the 14s. 140-150whp will be enough to bring a P5 into the 14s I would believe. And if you go with forged internals and 11 or 12:1 compression, larger cams and a stand-alone, you'll be much more than 150whp. There are some limitations as to what Tri-Point was able to do with the FS, but with enough money the sky's the limit. And that's just it. How much power you make has to do with how much money you want to spend. The only thing that's cost any serious amount of money on my car has been my exhaust and cam gears. Advanced ignition timing, my 'exhintake' cam and the RX7 AFM were next to nothing, but obviously you guys don't have those options.

Most people who do FI just have someone else install and tune it. All of us serious NA guys are doing all the planning, building and tuning ourselves, which is extremely satisfying. I've torn down my spare engine with my bare hands, and am going to blueprint it and build it back up again. Not to say FI guys can't do the same, but with NA you have to squeeze every little ounce of power you can out of it, so things like lightened and balanced crankshafts, and headwork are less common since it's so much easier to just find ways of turning up the boost.

Very true sir...although P5's are only 100lbs lighter than MSP's...and MSP's dyno'd with 150ish whp, and 155ish lb-ft...and I never saw any stock MSP break 15 flat...so My guess is that it would take all of 150+whp in a street trim P5 to break 15...Kyle's DX is probably 300lbs lighter than an MSP, so if he had the 145+whp that the pda dyno was declaring, I don't doubt 14's for him at all...

We get this discussion a lot...and its always fun to see what everyone says about both sides...One thing that is for sure is that it is harder and more expensive to make big numbers with an NA FS...and for the most part the FS becomes extremely limited to a point...mostly because of revs...You put down 8,200 +rpm for any length of time with an FS...it doesn't matter what internals you have...its over...I pulled my rev limit from 8200 down to 8000, and again down to about 7800...which is where it will now stay...and I am out of about 9whp peak because of that (it was peaking just after 8,000 and beginning to slope back down)...I will give up that little power for the reliability...

Ultimately Texas...you need to decide...What you are looking for is easily attainable with either method...But both will create completely different machines...
 
I'm just waiting to Womp you!

That is a GREAT idea for those NA guys who have spent the time and effort designing their own cams and headwork. Just bolt on a blower and another 100whp. None of your hardwork is wasted.
 
what are your NA mods to your engine Kyle that you'll be keeping when you decide to switch over? What mods do you still have planned?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back