Coilover comparison?

[Racebrewer]

Hi,

Has anyone driven M2's with different coilover set ups? Especially the H&R vs the Bisteins?

I'm interested in how the handling between the two compared, not which one dropped the most.

Thanks,
John

 

[matrixxx]

I too am among those choices, and Ksport

 

[GRM Tom]

I want to deliver this test to you. Badly. Wish me luck.

I've had incredibly good results with Bilsteins, but H&R makes good stuff too. I have no experience with Ksport, though.

What's your intended purpose? Autocross? Track Days? Aggro street driving?

 

[Racebrewer]

Hi Tom,

I'll definitely buy that issue.

All of the above and looking long term at building an M2 for B-Spec, if the rules ever get published. Have you heard anything recently?

I've heard good things about Bilsteins and H&R, but mixed reviews of Ksports on Honda sites.

Thanks,
John

 

[matrixxx]

track 4 me...!!!

 

[Racebrewer]

OK. I just found the B-Spec rules. Stripped interior, removal of radio and A/C. Add suspension (spring, strut, and shock changes only up to 500 lb springs). 15 x 7 wheels max.

If I read that right, no sway bar changes, stock exhaust and intake, etc, etc, etc.

Pretty simple. What did I miss? What are roll cage requirements?

John

 

[mray]

anyone find out the spring rates for the bilsteins yet? i just got the set but im jwing.

 

[Slow Paul]

I've had great experiences with Bilstein's products. I've emailed them asking them for spring rates on the coilovers for the M2 but have yet to get a response. I plan on autocrossing, light tracking, some canyon driving, and lots of fun corners, so I think the bilsteins are the way to go. You cant beat the price either.

 

[GRM Tom]

A comparison in the magazine is highly unlikely until a lot more folks go out, buy a 2, and get subscriptions. Maybe

I'm pretty sure the B-spec car used the H&R coilovers, but I can't find where I read that so don't quote me.

The Bilstein PSS10 is meant to be a street-friendly product, so that's probably going to be my first choice also. It's also a revalvable, monotube strut, so if you're really going nuts they can be set up for serious race stuff. (Not as easy as revalving a Bilstein HD, but do-able.)

Now to find a good set of camber plates...

 

[Racebrewer]

Hi Tom,

It seems like the question is which set of coilovers allow you to use other than the supplied springs? And, what set of coilovers can handle up to 500 lb springs?

To adjust camber in the front, SPC has adjustable offset bolts which might give enough adjustment (maybe with a little filing?). I believe that the rear will require shims. I should get to a local dealer next week and will try to go through the factory manual for helpful hints.

John

 

[GRM Tom]

Any coilover will let you use alternate springs; you just need to find a vendor that makes them in your desired diameter (coil, nor wire) and rate. I like Swift springs a lot; you can also get Carrera springs from places like Speedway Motors. (PM me if you need links, but Google knows them both well.)

The damper itself doesn't give a hoot how stiff the springs are. The little valves inside do, though, so if you're going to vary the spring rate by a whole lot you will need to change the valves. This is best left to a professional; I've had great success with Shaikh from Fat Cat Motorsports in the Miata community, but there are others who do similar work. Heck, the Bilstein factory will revalve shocks.

...and I suppose it's possible a ridiculously hard spring could bunge up the spring seats, but 500 lbs. is not that stiff. Is that an arbitrary number or did you do some engineering to get it?

 

[Racebrewer]

Hi Tom,

The 500 lb is from the SCCA:

From the Tech Bulletin in the SCCA's May Fastrack:

2. #4607 (CRB) SSC B-Spec rules and specs
Effective upon publication, add a new subsection 9.1.7.E.34 as follows:
“For each of the following cars in SSC, Ford Fiesta 4 door (2010-11), Honda Fit 5 door (2009-2011), Nissan Versa 4-5 door
(2010-2011), Mazda2 4 door (2010-2011) and Toyota Yaris 2-4 door (2010-2011), the following apply:
Interiors may be removed, including seats, seat brackets, carpet, carpet padding, OEM seat belts, interior trim and
headliners. OEM radio and air conditioner may be removed. Heaters and all duct work must remain, except duct work that
goes under seats.
Maximum 2.5 degrees negative chamber on front and rear; MacPherson strut suspension may decamber wheels by the use
of eccentric bushings at control arm pivot points, by the use of eccentric bushings at the strut-to-spindle, and/or by use of
slotted adjusters at the top of the strut mounting plate. If upper strut slotted plates are used, they shall be located on existing
chassis structure, utilizing the OEM bolt holes and may not serve as reinforcement for that structure. On other forms of
suspension, camber adjustment may be achieved by the use of shims and/or eccentric bushings.
Ride Height: Minimum ride height is five (5) inches, to be measured without driver at the lowest point of the rocker panels,
but not to include welded seams or fasteners.
Suspension: Any OEM or aftermarket non-adjustable shock absorber intended for the specific make, model and year car is
permitted. The shock absorber must be installed in the stock mounting location. Remote reservoir shocks are not permitted.
Any springs up to a maximum spring rate of 500 pounds may be used. The spring must be installed in the stock location.
Threaded shock bodies or adjusters may be used.”

In regards to the springs themselves: If you go to the Corksport site and look at the photos of the coilovers, the Bilstein coilover springs look more like OEM type "pig tail" springs where some of the coils are wound to a different diameter. So I'm not sure if springs can be swapped for others like the Swifts.

The H&R coilover springs look more like conventional coilover springs with a constant diameter HOWEVER that may be a representative photo as those struts don't look like they'd go on a M2 to me.

Maybe Derrick could elaborate? Derrick HELP!

John

 

[CorkSport]

The Bilsteins are made to fit the stock spring mounting points on the 2 so the springs with the kit reflect that. For the fronts you could swap in some 2.5 inch standard springs and get an upper spring perch setup to work with the factory upper mount easy enough. I would have to go look at the rears again to see how the top spring sits.

 

[Racebrewer]

Thanks Derrick!!!!!

How about the H&R's?

By any chance, have you driven M2's with both set-ups?

Much appreciated. + + + + for Corksport ! ! ! !

John

 

[zps2004]

Please don't get K-sports. Awful coilovers. I have had many sets of other dampers and just about anything rode better with stiffer spring rates. Save up and buy something else.

I am planning on getting the Bilsteins for my car, then making camber plates. I do want to know the rates of the Bilsteins though.

 

[Joker2]

Mazda 2-The DD I am trying not to modify
^sig of ZPS2004

UHHH?

 

[zps2004]

I said trying, lol. I am still a car guy and a racer. Coilovers and wheels are basically the only things I am going to do. Otherwise I would rather spend the money on my Miata.

 

[matrixxx]

k-sport delete of my list.. jajajaja... bilsteins ftw

 

[mray]

so far the bilsteins are really stiff. ...no dampening adjustments even though corksport advertises it as a pss10. it hasnt settled yet and i havent gotten an alignment or corner balance but in the corner with no sway or struts its amazing as long as theres no bumps. ..

theres also a slight squeak in the rear right. i havent figured it out yet lol

 

[GRM Tom]

no dampening adjustments even though corksport advertises it as a pss10.

The adjuster should be at the bottom of the damper on the PSS10, not the top. Don't mean to suggest the obvious, but the PSS10 is different than most arrangements.

RE: Custom springs-

Hyperco, Swift, Carrera, Eibach, Tein and more offer springs in various free lengths and rates. If they don't offer something close to what you're looking for, I'll eat my hat and order exactly what I need from someplace like THIS.