cobb AP for ms3 only not ms6

[nypest]

cobb AP for MS3 only not ms6...

 

[ATE BALLER]

You know, I've wondering something. I know the ap won't work on the ms6's ecu, but would the ms3's ecu be able to run the ms6's motor? Probably have to buy the ecu and connectors and do alot of splicing, but would it work? My buddy has an ap for his wrx, and I love the thing, and it really pissed in my cheerios when they said they wouldn't do one for the ms6. The only thing I see being a possible issue is the awd, but isn't that controlled by a different module?

 

[nypest]

You know, I've wondering something. I know the ap won't work on the ms6's ecu, but would the ms3's ecu be able to run the ms6's motor? Probably have to buy the ecu and connectors and do alot of splicing, but would it work? My buddy has an ap for his wrx, and I love the thing, and it really pissed in my cheerios when they said they wouldn't do one for the ms6. The only thing I see being a possible issue is the awd, but isn't that controlled by a different module?

i love that saying "pissed in my cheerios" lol

Alot of the dynos and data logs have been showing very conflicting results between the 2 cars so they may just be that different????(peep)

 

[Haltech]

They never gave a firm date before, but i dont think Josh is bullshitting us. So im betting on mid to late Feb.

AteBall... the ECU usually has control of automatic trannies... Im not sure if your awd is variable or pre-defined ratio. If its a pre-defined ratio, there may be hope for some type of crude splicing since the ECU isnt controlling it. I just cant believe that the 2 cars are so much different, with the same motors.

 

[ATE BALLER]

I know I heard of one guy on the other board that was swapping in a cx7 motor after granading his. That was months ago though, and I don't remember seeing him post any more about it. Hell, I wouldn't mind swaping out to a full time awd set up with no computer controls, but getting gears to fit in the rear end and match the drive ratios would be pretty pricey. Then, the ms3 ecu should work ust fine. It can be done and the gears can be made, but who's gonna do it? According to that training program, the rear diff is where the awd is adjusted from. The driveshaft is always in motion, so a new rear diff is really all it would take to make it work.

 

[Haltech]

Have you guys confimed which AWD system the MS6 uses ( IE: Volvo Model, etc )? I wonder if there is something already made out there or can be had from overseas.

I personally wouldnt mind a 50/50 ratio MS3 if i could do it for $3K.

You said the AWD is adjusted from the rear end somehow.. i wonder if the ratio can be changed with a simple gear change?

As far as the ECU goes, you should be able to flash straight to a MS3 ECU without having to replace your MS6 ECU is you went with manual AWD control. This should save the wire nightmare at least. I succesfully did this to my Focus SVT. I went with a Focus RS setup and the flash went fine. Ive also seen this done with various Ford trucks & cars.

 

[ATE BALLER]

You know, now that I think about it, if an ms3 ecu would be swapped into an ms6, it wouldn't be able to tell the rear end when to ease off. If it's a pull type clutch pack in the rear end, it would be stuck fully engaged all the time. However, if it's a push type, it would be the opposite. Something else I've contemplated is to pull the front axels, plate the holes where they came out of the tranny, and swap in a beefy aftermarket rear end for an rx7 w/ a custom driveshaft. Probably less than $3k for a ms6 to be rwd. DSC and TCS wouldn't work, but I turn it off anyway. That would likely take a bit of stress off the tranny too. If it's done right, there could be some mazdas staring at the sky til the 60ft at the track someday (that is, if we can ever tune the thing to make some descent power). Either way, I'll be keeping an eye on what the ap does for the ms3.

 

[jp4130]

Have you guys confimed which AWD system the MS6 uses ( IE: Volvo Model, etc )? I wonder if there is something already made out there or can be had from overseas.

I personally wouldnt mind a 50/50 ratio MS3 if i could do it for $3K.

You said the AWD is adjusted from the rear end somehow.. i wonder if the ratio can be changed with a simple gear change?


As far as the ECU goes, you should be able to flash straight to a MS3 ECU without having to replace your MS6 ECU is you went with manual AWD control. This should save the wire nightmare at least. I succesfully did this to my Focus SVT. I went with a Focus RS setup and the flash went fine. Ive also seen this done with various Ford trucks & cars.

I have done a little looking into this for my speed3. It looks like the transmissions are only used in our cars (3and6). The 6 has a power sending unit that I believe bolts onto the 6's transmission. My hope is that it will bolt onto the 3's transmission as well. I am going to get the shop service manual for the speed 3 and 6 transmission it is a seperate manual from the shop manual i allready have . It is the same manual for both cars. with this manual i will be able to see the exact differences that are in place to put the power to the rear shaft. The things i do Know ARE:
Power is always sent to the rear drive shaft(50/50 looks very promising)
As for that last question. No the rear differential needs to have the same gear ratio as the front; the wheel speeds have to be the same. A diff is the only way to split power front to rear
The power sending unit it is watercooled from the factory.
There is no center diff (like an STI) the power is always going to the rear diff.
Then it is utilized by an electromagnetic clutch to use up to 50%.
With this system permanent 50/50 could be atianed with any type of rear diff. Problem is we need to find out which diffs are available with the right ratio.
Also with 50/50 wieght could be saved with lighter simpler rear diff.
That is cool what you did with focus.
Problem is our engine management is so tied in with the steering abs and every other sensor one could imagine.
I do not know how simple it would be to do something similer to what you did with your focus.

I do not want to post any misinformation.
When I have found out everything that would need to be done(or close to it) to make a 3 50/50 awd I will start a new thread.
This I am sure will take a while but I am slowly finding out how it works and what parts solutions will have to be incorperated into such a project.
If anybody reads this whom has also found out useful info maybe start a thread i am not ready yet i need to get that manual.

Oh ya one thing please do not reply get a subaru. I want a MAZDASPEED 3 AWD. Anybody ever starts talking about this thats all you hear.

You know, now that I think about it, if an ms3 ecu would be swapped into an ms6, it wouldn't be able to tell the rear end when to ease off. If it's a pull type clutch pack in the rear end, it would be stuck fully engaged all the time. However, if it's a push type, it would be the opposite. Something else I've contemplated is to pull the front axels, plate the holes where they came out of the tranny, and swap in a beefy aftermarket rear end for an rx7 w/ a custom driveshaft. Probably less than $3k for a ms6 to be rwd. DSC and TCS wouldn't work, but I turn it off anyway. That would likely take a bit of stress off the tranny too. If it's done right, there could be some mazdas staring at the sky til the 60ft at the track someday (that is, if we can ever tune the thing to make some descent power). Either way, I'll be keeping an eye on what the ap does for the ms3.

Wheelies in a mazda would be badass. I am very unsure of the power sending unit to the back. It is water cooled, this leads me to believe that it may be highly stressed at 50%?

 

[redspeed]

The ms6 awd is controlled by a second module next to the ecu. The magnetic clutch pack is on the rear diff and is what controls the awd torque bias. Like others had said the rear drive shaft is always in motion and sending power to the rear.

Ok, but the problem is that the rear clutch pack also controls the torque bias on cornering. Because the front and rear wheels are moving at different speeds while turning, you can't have constant 50% rear bias while cornering or you will be on a world of hurt. The wrx controls this with the center diff, but the ms6 setup does not have one.

So, since trying to make this work on ms3 will be next to impossible, the only way I think it would work is by somehow turning the clutch pack on/off manually. On for launch at the drag strip, off for auto cross/ highway driving. The mz3 has an awd option in japan, so the suspension setup is available. Add a ms6 tranny and I think this could work.

Flame suit on. (flame2)

 

[jp4130]

What is the suit for.
I Believe that the rear clutch pack cna be taken out.
For conering you will need the diff to have a limited slip of some sort side to side. That should take care of things. Unless I am missing something in my understanding. as for the suspension I think a few custom peaices should do the trick.
I changed my mind and started a new thread on this in the suspension area. Please do not use words like next to impossible in the new thread. I want people to post who share my enthusiam for this to have a good place to bounce ideas off each other.

Things like this are challenging not impossible.
I am about half way through the install and welding of an indepedent/inboard rear suspension on my friends 70 mustang mach one. We faced many unforseen challenges fabbing this up; projects like this are worth all the headache.

 

[tsunami]

thread closed and possibly renamed and reopened when i have time as its a good discusion just nothing to do with cobb access port honestly...




fixed and re-opened for your ms3 vs ms6 ecu discussions...



thank you and come again...

 

[redspeed]

What is the suit for.
I Believe that the rear clutch pack cna be taken out.
For conering you will need the diff to have a limited slip of some sort side to side. That should take care of things. Unless I am missing something in my understanding. as for the suspension I think a few custom peaices should do the trick.
I changed my mind and started a new thread on this in the suspension area. Please do not use words like next to impossible in the new thread. I want people to post who share my enthusiam for this to have a good place to bounce ideas off each other.

Things like this are challenging not impossible.
I am about half you through the install and welding of an indepedent/inboard suspension on my friends 70 mustang mach one. We fced many unforseen challenges fabbing this up; projects like this are worth all the headache.

The reason I said "next to impossible" is because there are a lot of sensors feeding info tho the ecu on different driving conditions. Trying to retrofit all this on a ms3 that does not have anything like that is gona be a crazy project.

I see if I can find where I was reading about the ms6 torque bias on cornering, but the it basically says that you need either more torque on the front or rear while cornering. The number I saw was something like 90/10 front/rear torque bias on corners 60 deg and higher. So, if you have 50/50 on cornering even with a limited slip, you asking for trouble. Feel free to correct me.

 

[ATE BALLER]

A probable issue with retro-fitting an awd to the ms3 is that the ms3's gas tank probably sits in the way of where the diff would be. The driveshaft tunnel might also be a problem. It "could" be done, but it would deffinately be quite a tough project.

 

[TRSpeed3]

They never gave a firm date before, but i dont think Josh is bullshitting us. So im betting on mid to late Feb.

AteBall... the ECU usually has control of automatic trannies... Im not sure if your awd is variable or pre-defined ratio. If its a pre-defined ratio, there may be hope for some type of crude splicing since the ECU isnt controlling it. I just cant believe that the 2 cars are so much different, with the same motors.

He just posted 6-10 weeks...that puts it past feb....

 

[redspeed]

A probable issue with retro-fitting an awd to the ms3 is that the ms3's gas tank probably sits in the way of where the diff would be. The driveshaft tunnel might also be a problem. It "could" be done, but it would deffinately be quite a tough project.

The ms3 is the same platform as the volvo s40/v50 that comes with awd. Is called the ford c1 platform. So the tunnel for the drive shaft should be there and we can get the volvo gas tank or the japanese awd mz3 gas tank. Those tanks are divided in the middle.

 

[jp4130]

The reason I said "next to impossible" is because there are a lot of sensors feeding info tho the ecu on different driving conditions. Trying to retrofit all this on a ms3 that does not have anything like that is gona be a crazy project.

I see if I can find where I was reading about the ms6 torque bias on cornering, but the it basically says that you need either more torque on the front or rear while cornering. The number I saw was something like 90/10 front/rear torque bias on corners 60 deg and higher. So, if you have 50/50 on cornering even with a limited slip, you asking for trouble. Feel free to correct me.

Ya your right; there has to be a diff of some sort from front to back. I was thinking clearly on this. permanent 50/50 with a center diff may be the solution.

 

[dkswim]

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