Chipping a engine BS...
- Thread starter camrycev6
- Start date
That is the thing with VW, the engines are so detuned from the factory it is "easy" to get a ton more power out of them. With the MS3, the engine is pretty highly tuned from the factory and makes a bunch more power as is from the dealership.
On a personal note, I think I am going to schedule my free 5 hour trial of the Stage 1 ECU upgrade for my car for early next week. It is great, you go to the authorized tuner, they flash your car for free, and you have 5 hours of driving time to experience the tune before you spend the $$$ on it. How awesome is that!
Dude, that is one of the best ideas out there for tuning. More shops need to do that.
Don't understand why this is such an amazing concept for you? If I don't end up trading it in for an MS3, I know I am going to get an ECU reflash from the company APR (http://www.goapr.com/VW/products/ecu_upgrade_mkvgtitsi.html) for my 2008 VW GTI that brings it from 200hp and 207 ft/lbs to 254hp and 297 ft/lbs. That is a pretty amazing difference for like $500-$600.
This has been common in the VW community for years now. Got to love forced induction and stout german engineering...........Although, they don't appear to know all that much about reliable electrical systems.........
Because I think 30% is a lot of power to miss from the start that a simple chip can add. Why is that hard for you to understand? It seems if that is a case, the car starts poorly tuned. I have heard guys talking about chips adding 40% - 50% gains... Does that sound reasonable to you?
Adding 10% - 15% (as in the case of the MS3) with a piggyback unit / chip is fine. Maybe even 20 - 25%, but the incredulous meter starts rising as you start creeping into the 30%+ region. Why you ask? Because a moderate knowledge of physics tells me you don't get something for nothing. When you don't change anything about the physical properties of an engine, comments about 90 HP (30% gain for a 335) gain are hard to swallow. I suppose if we have proof, then there you go. But I am less inclined to just believe that without a dyno.
That said, should I believe my neighbor who told me he can drop a chip in his 2005 Volvo S60 that takes it from 257 HP / 258 torque to 400 HP / ?? Torque? (We talked about this two nights ago.. He said he can just get a chip and make it 400 HP and "crush" my MS3.... clearly he is "chip" sycophant.)
The reason why some of these chip companies tout such high figures could also be related to the fact that the tune is more biased towards some crazy peak # that sells a lot of product. I know this doesn't apply to all chip tuners out there but as with all aftermarket parts for cars, manufacturer claims always have to be taken with a grain of salt. I'm sure some of these claims are real but at what expense to drivability and reliability? Then there are some companies that outright overstate the gains period.
Those VW tuners were literally strangling the small turbos on the 1.8t motors with some of the more wild tunes on the market. I've seen videos of turbos on those motors glow bright orange because of the amount of boost the remap called for. Hardly safe IMO. And on a VW/Audi where reliability is always a concern I don't know if that's such a good idea!
Those VW tuners were literally strangling the small turbos on the 1.8t motors with some of the more wild tunes on the market. I've seen videos of turbos on those motors glow bright orange because of the amount of boost the remap called for. Hardly safe IMO. And on a VW/Audi where reliability is always a concern I don't know if that's such a good idea!
The engines were never VW's problem.......it was just everything else.........I know the current Stage 1 tunes for the VW/Audi 2.0T boost around 17-19psi at the peak. Tons and tons of people are running these tunes without issues, as long as you buy from one of the big 3 companies (APR, REVO, GIAC). They are in the business of large power gains, stock driveability, and long-term reliability.........if the tunes were damaging engines, people would stop buying them. The companies have built their reputations around safe power. Even in other factory trims(Audi), the same 2.0T engine produces like 50 more hp and 50 more ft/lbs than in the GTI/VW application..........They simply did not want to give the consumer more power for the price.
Certainly all cars/engines are not like this. I know my old WRX could not see gains anywhere near that, not even half, from an ECU tune. This is one of the reasons people are getting VW GTI's - it is so easy and relatively cheap to get a goof bit more power out of them safely because the engines are already made for the power, they are just detuned from the factory.
tiagotiago
Member
- :
- 2008.5 Mazdaspeed 3
That's a pretty sweet deal for you...and some clever salesmanship from them!
And to the OP, yeah you're neighbor is a tad optimistic. If that s60 has the T5 engine it could go up to easily go to 300 with several goodies on it (again see the Focus RS), but it wouldnt last long making that power with just a chip IMO.
You should let him go up to 400 and take that race (in a closed circuit of course), just make shure it lasts for about an hour; I'm pretty shure you'll have a big laugh when his engine grenades!
Yep... he as the T5 engine. It making th stock 257 right now. He saids he doesn't chip it because he doesn't "need" the extra power and he is worried it might reduce the engine life.
I don't know if the same applies to the older 1.8t VW engines but I'm well aware of the current gen VW/Audis that run the 2.0T can net some great gains from an ECU remap. It's obvious to me at least because the same engine produces a claimed 255 or 260 HP in the new Audi TTS. These same 2.0T engines were de-tuned from the factory most likely because Audi's top of the line 3.2 V6 can only muster 265 HP.
Many 1.8T owners with sludge issues would disagree.
But yes, you are right. VW with sensor you to death.
check: burger tuning . com
With drag tires and passenger seat removed a 335i is hitting 11.7 at 121mph
tune only = +81hp +72 ft./lbs. (135i)
135i with Intake, Turboback and intercooler(s) = 440 whp, 426 ft./lbs.
Thats cheaper HP than the MS3 provides by a long shot =(
With drag tires and passenger seat removed a 335i is hitting 11.7 at 121mph
tune only = +81hp +72 ft./lbs. (135i)
135i with Intake, Turboback and intercooler(s) = 440 whp, 426 ft./lbs.
Thats cheaper HP than the MS3 provides by a long shot =(
- :
- 2007 MS3
Don`t forget that clever wording can make some impressive claims be true, but not what you think they are.
Example: the vehicle makes 260 hp at 4800 rpm. It also happens to make 230 hp at 4000 rpm, but they don`t mention that. The advertisement says that with their product, you`ll see an increase of 40 hp. You of course assume that they are talking on top of the peak hp to provide a new peak of 300. In reality that 40 hp gain is at 4000 rpm, and peak actually only went up say 10 hp. Now mind you this would significantly broaden the power curve, which is not a bad thing, but it is not what the advertisement implied.
They did not lie though.
Example: the vehicle makes 260 hp at 4800 rpm. It also happens to make 230 hp at 4000 rpm, but they don`t mention that. The advertisement says that with their product, you`ll see an increase of 40 hp. You of course assume that they are talking on top of the peak hp to provide a new peak of 300. In reality that 40 hp gain is at 4000 rpm, and peak actually only went up say 10 hp. Now mind you this would significantly broaden the power curve, which is not a bad thing, but it is not what the advertisement implied.
They did not lie though.
Actually that is better isn't it ?...more power lower in the band while maintaining more power throughout the band.
That is why APR is so awesome..I can attest to how much faster their cars are after they finish with them...I live 2 miles from the actual APR shop and my roommate has spent a good bit of money getting tuned there. They tune it so that the entire power band is smooth ( and high) instead of shooting for some peak number that last a split second (hp spikes).
I got spanked by one of their stage 3+ gti mkV's ...it was so saddening, up to 120 he kept pulling on me and I just busted a u-turn and met him back to the shop so I could just marvel at his car as he pulled in.
That is why APR is so awesome..I can attest to how much faster their cars are after they finish with them...I live 2 miles from the actual APR shop and my roommate has spent a good bit of money getting tuned there. They tune it so that the entire power band is smooth ( and high) instead of shooting for some peak number that last a split second (hp spikes).
I got spanked by one of their stage 3+ gti mkV's ...it was so saddening, up to 120 he kept pulling on me and I just busted a u-turn and met him back to the shop so I could just marvel at his car as he pulled in.
135's and 335's make about 394-395 hp from a chip alone. This is because the chip tells the engine to allow more boost. My older brother has a Bi-Turbo S4 with an MTM chip(one of the safest ones out there) and his stock boost was 11psi and with the chip he's closer to 17-18 psi. His car gained about 80 or so horsepower and about the same for torque
FunkyBuddha
Tuned by Slick Nick
- :
- 2003 Spicy Orange MSP
Jeebus..just go buy a jetta or a golf and see for yourself.
AllLostThings
Member
- :
- 2007 Mazdaspeed 3
I work with a VW guy who just had some kind of ECU reflash that was said to give him some 20hp and similar torque gains. He's yet to dyno it but said the car flys now. There is some good stuff out there for euro cars.
