CAI vs. Stock-Weird.

[boosted3]

Yesterday I took my CAI off so I can take it to the dealer for a recall, or 9.
The first thing I noticed with the stock air box is how much more crisp/quick the car felt. With the stock air box (sans snorkel) I was able to get my traction control light to blink almost at will. I went home as soon as I left the dealer, put the CAI back on and it felt like the car slowed down. It's lost that crisp feeling.

What gives? I know it's going to take longer to draw the air and probably slow the spool time, but man.. what a difference.

The stock box has a K&N drop in.

 

[Maxx Mazda]

Did you reset your ECU in between each? I'd bet on that being the problem-o.

 

[subparpunk03]

Also check your CAI filter, might be time to clean that beeyotch.

 

[Dream]

Its been posted many times, with the CAI you will lose down low power but you gain it back up top. Im keeping my stock box for now, I prefer the down low grunt of this car.

 

[Ryz]

The amount of power you lose could not be felt. Nobody can truly tell that a few ft/lbs have been lost. It's all perception.

 

[boosted3]

Did you reset your ECU in between each? I'd bet on that being the problem-o.

Yes..

Also check your CAI filter, might be time to clean that beeyotch.

Filter is almost new. It's clean..

The amount of power you lose could not be felt. Nobody can truly tell that a few ft/lbs have been lost. It's all perception.

In most cases I would agree and I'm not one to make outrageous claims about being able to feel a small hp/trq change, but this is a very obvious change.
It feels like a 30hp increase going back to the stock airbox. MY buddy(who is a Honda tuner) came by last night and we messed with the CAI a bit. I cut it down and attached the filter right after the MAF rather than a long tube and this made a drastic difference, even more than the difference between the stock airbox/CAI. Somehow, that long tube was creating an issue..

 

[Dream]

It's not that he LOST power, it just doesnt come on as soon or as smooth as it does with the stock air box. Until we have some solid ecu upgrades out there, I suggest you stay stock and stay safe. The car will thank you.

 

[redrocketz]

that is weird because every time I install an intake on a MS3 it feels way more powerful.

 

[fourthmeal]

big question: WHICH CAI?

 

[boosted3]

Now it's a modified MS CAI.

I like your Ron Paul sig. He's gaining momentum, but I'm afraid he has little chance of winning the election. We can only hope.

 

[ZooMIN3]

Now it's a modified MS CAI.

I like your Ron Paul sig. He's gaining momentum, but I'm afraid he has little chance of winning the election. We can only hope.

Did you just cut the lower half of the piping? Or just did away with the entire lower half, and utilize the upper half of the piping? You said modified, so yeah, got a pic?

 

[subparpunk03]

If you wanted a short ram intake you shoulda sold your CAI and bought the cobb. That could have left you with a little extra cashmoneys.

 

[terbow]

dont forget, your car was tuned with the stock airbox, not the CAI, or any aftermarket item. Once you change something even as small as an intake, your deviating from the original tune. The ecu doesnt know what size piping you have or what material it is. its just doing what its programmed to do.

 

[fourthmeal]

Two issues here:

The short-ram version of the MS-CAI seems to have problems with certain cars, and for what reason, I'm unsure. If I had to guess, I'd say it is due to a lack of an air straightener built into the design.

The reason I mention that is that a lot of people with the Cobb SRI claim excellent performance increase over stock, and an ever-so-slight increase from the MS-CAI...perhaps to the smooth flow through the MAF giving a slight edge to the Cobb.

As far as tuning...

Keep in mind we use a MAF that can read incoming air, and a computer that can accommodate roughly a + or - 25% trim in fuel to meet the needs of additional airflow. The Long-term Fuel trim settings learned during normal driving are then applied to WOT driving, and those trim settings should allow adaptation of a new intake, intercooler, cat-back exhaust, fuel pump, etc. without much of a problem.

Until we get out of the operating parameters of the stock ecu and its ability to adapt, we're ok! Caution must be exerted near the fringe, though.

 

[terbow]

yea it can adapt but you cant expect it run as smooth as stock when you replace parts and not adjust the tuning, thats all i was sayin. its not really weird, thats all. its expected.

those maps are based on the items that are in the car, if you stick a larger sized pipe on the maf intake, the ecu doesnt know what size it is, that changes airflow. yes it can compensate, but again, its not going to be as smooth as stock.

 

[fourthmeal]

I disagree with that based on knowledge of how this ECU learns and how it is programmed.

One thing to keep in mind is that the MS-CAI was proven through tests to actually have the identical MAF housing size, even though we all pretty much thought it was oversized and was responsible for mis-calibrating the ECU. This was proven otherwise recently.

The MAF simply reads incoming air and applies that information to the map tables within, and adjusts fuel trim with the LTFT adaptive strategy learnings. So, again, as long as the calibration is still "on" due to a correct MAF housing size, AND the air flowing through the MAF is fully readable and smooth flowing, then the ECU shouldn't run into any trouble matching and modifying itself with various mods. Naturally, there is a point at which this all falls apart, but its not at the CAI mod.

Also, I'd double-question yourself if you think that a change from stock to any SRI or CAI causes a lack of torque in the bottom end. On N/A cars, sure. Backpressure and other issues come into play. But a turbo car is dealing with a different deck of cards, so to speak. With a turbo, the turbine and impeller itself are the ultimate restrictions, and as such anything and everything you can do to increase air flow will result in gains in power and response.

 

[terbow]

Im not trying to argue, nor will i. but sure that all sounds good on paper but the fact of the matter is, once you change something, it doesnt drive the same as stock, it wont be as smooth, without altering the tune. you can tell me all you want about adaptive stratagies, but ive replaced enough intakes and added enough parts to know how it really happens. i dont rely on what happens on paper. they spend millions of dollars tuning the ecu to whats on the car. when you change it, something has to give. Sure you get more top end but its going to have a tradeoff.

i dont need to double question anything, i said nothing about losing torque, i am commenting on driveability which is what the original poster is complaining about. you cna read into it however you wish.

and for the record, im referring to millions in testing to cars like yours which they seem to care about. our poor msp's ran like s*** form day 1 lol

 

[fourthmeal]

Fair enough on all issues.

Also the the torque thing was brought up by others and I was addressing them not you on that one.

 

[terbow]

Fair enough on all issues.

Also the the torque thing was brought up by others and I was addressing them not you on that one.

ahh sorry, it seemed like all one statement