Built motor, t3 super 60, megasquirt.

[BlkZoomZoom]

Unrelated to your fuel issues, but that exhaust manifold is holding you back a lot and is part of the reason you dyno'd so low.

Why do you say that? The stock Msp one has gone over 330whp. I would think a hiboost one would go to 500?

 

[MPNick]

Unrelated to your fuel issues, but that exhaust manifold is holding you back a lot and is part of the reason you dyno'd so low.

Log manifolds have been around for years. They have aways out performed most headers. If we have seen over 320whp with MSPs running the MPI and the turbo upgrade.

Big Tim has made over 230 with only 8 psi and a cast log manifold. Matter of fact I know one 320whp MSP that did not make any more whp with a header from a vendor on this forum. So your post has no facts to back it up.

 

[MPNick]

yah. That's pretty much what I was thinking. I am running whatever fuel pressure stock is(I'm assuming 3 bar). I haven't put in the regulator yet, although I do have the stuff to install it. What the heck would be holding me back? There's no way the fuel pump is cutting out, it's a walbro 225. The stock rail is good to more than this, maybe my filter it clogged or something.
-Mateo

You should try to reinstall your stock pump. Most aftermarket pumps are not as good as stock. The 225 rateing is at what PSI?

The stock pump is good for over 300whp on the dyno with stock pressure. If you rase the pressure the pump will lose output. Stock pressure and pump is more then fine for where you are.

How do you know you are at 100% duty cycle? Are you sure that the driver in your ECM is driving the injectors right.

 

[hesitationhater]

Matter of fact I know one 320whp MSP that did not make any more whp with a header from a vendor on this forum. So your post has no facts to back it up.

Here is just one guy out of many that I know of that got big gains from going to a tubular design.

http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2149640&postcount=2

Why don't we have a constructive debate instead of having a pissing match here. I am just trying to help figure out how yellerspeed can make more power.

 

[KzA]

That was on YOUR dyno right? What did the same guy make while he was out in Arizona again? Oh yea, that's right, he didn't even crack 200. Every single run that has been done on YOUR dyno has been suspiciously inflated... hmmm.

he doesnt even have a dyno..nice try tho

 

[hesitationhater]

he doesnt even have a dyno..nice try tho

Alright, I will be the first (or in this case the second) to admit when I am wrong... I always thought that Nick used the same in house dyno. Regardless of who's dyno it was, I still find it odd that the "MPI numbers" were 30-40whp higher than the "independent" testing done by the owner of the car himself.

 

[Moeed]

okay hater, when Tim moved to AZ his elevation changed. He will reflect different numbers due to that.

Yeller, I completely appologize for shitting on your thread. I hope a mod will clean out some of these unnecessary posts.

 

[KzA]

those dynos were also both taken at extremely different altitudes, much different temperatures, different gasoline octanes, and completely different tunes. 30-40 whp difference is very possible with those drastic chanegs in conditions

 

[Mental Addiction]

Matter of fact I know one 320whp MSP that did not make any more whp with a header from a vendor on this forum. So your post has no facts to back it up.

Nick,

Since I'm the only one that makes an MSP tubular header I will assume it's me.
The guy you are talking about is Focus. If memory serves me right he made something like 296whp at 18psi and race gas running a stock manifold. He then switched to our manifold and made 325whp at 17psi and pump gas. When he would turn up the boost the car just wouldn't make anymore power. He was maxing out his MAF and he had a few other things holding him back.

Also we have a guy(robp5t) who was running a BEGI manifold, T3/T4,etc. All he did was switch out the manifold and this is what he got
Begi manifold-10psi,194 whp

Thumper manifold- 10psi 234 whp, 12psi 257 whp and that was at 10.5 a/r.

 

[hesitationhater]

okay hater, when Tim moved to AZ his elevation changed. He will reflect different numbers due to that.

Yeller, I completely appologize for shitting on your thread. I hope a mod will clean out some of these unnecessary posts.

lol, moeed, I'm not hating man. Get on AIM. I was just pointing out that yeller could make more power with a tubular manifold than he did with that log... and then Nick told me I have no facts. I will go ahead and delete some of my comments since they are being taken the wrong way.

 

[mazdaspeed75]

a

Hey Beau get me a MaNifold and i will see what the difference is . I dynoed 207 whp 234tq at 9 psi . I ahev dynoed with the same dyno the past 2 times .

 

[robp5t]

The mani makes a huge diffrence my spool time was fast having full boost by 3500 to 3700 rpm and held strong all the way to 7600 rpm. My old set up was around 3700 to 3850 around in that range not to mention found out my head gasket was leaking.

 

[MPNick]

Alright, I will be the first (or in this case the second) to admit when I am wrong... I always thought that Nick used the same in house dyno. Regardless of who's dyno it was, I still find it odd that the "MPI numbers" were 30-40whp higher than the "independent" testing done by the owner of the car himself.

When did I ever post a dyno sheet that the owner was not there when it was dynoed. I am the only vendor on this forum that has post not only the dyno sheets but also the dyno files. No one has been more open about what kind of power some one car has made. Who dynoed 30-40 whp less. If you mean Big Tim then you do not know the whole story. He made 228whp here in NJ with 93 gas and 208 in AZ with 91. We are sea level here, I know out there it is higher. Also we help a dyno day. Forum members were there to see what the cars made. It was an open event to any to come and see.

 

[MPNick]

Why don't we have a constructive debate instead of having a pissing match here. I am just trying to help figure out how yellerspeed can make more power.

You have him buying a new manifold, I have him reinstalling his old fuel pump. You tell him he is out of manifold. I point out how many people have made much more power with the log manifold then he is making. I also point out how well the stock pump works along with what may be a problems with the pump he is useing. I ask about his injector driver because it is not right that he is at 100% duty cycle. Where do you see a pissing match? Where am I asking him to spend money with me or any other vendor? Where do you have a problem. Someone posts with dyno sheets that suck for what has been done to the car. They are looking for help. They may not like what they hear but I cannot help that.

 

[yellerandahalf]

lol, moeed, I'm not hating man. Get on AIM. I was just pointing out that yeller could make more power with a tubular manifold than he did with that log... and then Nick told me I have no facts. I will go ahead and delete some of my comments since they are being taken the wrong way.

gentleman, everyone calm down. Lively discussion is ok. Once things get out of hand, I'll ask a Moderator to clean it up. Moeed, it's ok. not a problem. As for now, speculation about reason why I'm down on power are perfectly fine! That's what the forum is for; look at 99% of posts on here. All I ask is that opinions given be backed up with some kind of fact, theory, or experience. Thanks for all of your respective interest. Vendors, please don't get into a shouting match. I don't see it as being one as of yet, just don't let it be one.
-Mateo

 

[status50]

As for now, speculation about reason why I'm down on power are perfectly fine! That's what the forum is for; look at 99% of posts on here. All I ask is that opinions given be backed up with some kind of fact, theory, or experience. Thanks for all of your respective interest. Vendors, please don't get into a shouting match. And Beau, please don't post here. you seem to make a mess of things. no hard feelings.
-Mateo

WOW. I think you where given an opinion and what looks like some facts about MAM's manifold power ranges and now you say he makes a mess and not to post. Sounds like your eyes are shut and your ears are closed.

 

[yellerandahalf]

You have him buying a new manifold, I have him reinstalling his old fuel pump. You tell him he is out of manifold. I point out how many people have made much more power with the log manifold then he is making. I also point out how well the stock pump works along with what may be a problems with the pump he is useing. I ask about his injector driver because it is not right that he is at 100% duty cycle. Where do you see a pissing match? Where am I asking him to spend money with me or any other vendor? Where do you have a problem. Someone posts with dyno sheets that suck for what has been done to the car. They are looking for help. They may not like what they hear but I cannot help that.

this. is. beautiful. I'm listening. And I'm swapping fuel pumps (if i can find the little plastic clip dealy that holds it in.) Before I do that, I'm going to make sure it's getting a full 12V. It sure seems a little quiet for a walbro. My injector drivers are fine, I do believe. they are operating just fine otherwise. I am confused with one issue. I have heard(not sure of the source) that injectors should not be allowed to exceed 100% duty cycle, that they really won't work more than 80%. I have also heard that they shouldn't be allowed to run above 80% due to safety reasons (injector hanging open, running out of fuel, going lean, etc.).

I have serious doubts about the efficiency of the HiBoost manifold. More importantly, I won't by another mental addiction product. and I sure as HELL won't buy a manifold for a thousand friggin dollars. So the Hiboost manifold is staying. the size of the primaries are going to be the biggest concern here. I'm not sure of the exact spec, but they're bigger than stock, and the stock one makes more power than we're seeing here.

I think the main issue might be compression. I bought (like a total idiot), pistons and rods from mental addiction. He gave me short rods. bad plan. I'm worried he didn't give me the right pistons, and I actually have like 7.2:1 compression. Low-end sure feels like it could be around there. Does anyone have any compression numbers I could refer to to figure out what mine is? Thanks a bunch, and thanks for helping me figure out WTF is wrong with this setup.
-Mateo

 

[yellerandahalf]

ok, so I just tested the plug that goes into the fuel pump, and it read 10V when the car is off, and 9V when the car is cranking. Shouldn't it see 12? Also another thing that could be the problem is that the walbro draws a lot more current thatn the stock pump, yet it's wired into the stock harness, with very small wires. Perhaps it's not happy with that gauge wire?
-Mateo

 

[MPNick]

ok, so I just tested the plug that goes into the fuel pump, and it read 10V when the car is off, and 9V when the car is cranking. Shouldn't it see 12? Also another thing that could be the problem is that the walbro draws a lot more current thatn the stock pump, yet it's wired into the stock harness, with very small wires. Perhaps it's not happy with that gauge wire?
-Mateo

Now you may be getting somewhere.

The problem with the aftermarket is that the specs may not always be as clear as they should. My point is that for years I have been told the Walbro pump is the way to go. We I check the specs on one of them many years ago I found a different story.

When they spec pumps you need to look at three things.
If it is a 255 pump at what pressure and what voltage was it tested at. You will find that as pressure goes up the output goes down. So a 255 @50psi and 12 volts is the spec given. Take the same pump and test it at 65psi and the output goes down to 225 maybe. Now drop the voltage to 10 and you are around 190. Kenny Bell sells a product called Boost-A-Pump. It lets you adjust the voltage to gain output.

 

[MPNick]

ok, so I just tested the plug that goes into the fuel pump, and it read 10V when the car is off, and 9V when the car is cranking. Shouldn't it see 12? Also another thing that could be the problem is that the walbro draws a lot more current thatn the stock pump, yet it's wired into the stock harness, with very small wires. Perhaps it's not happy with that gauge wire?
-Mateo

Now you may be getting somewhere.

The problem with the aftermarket is that the specs may not always be as clear as they should. My point is that for years I have been told the Walbro pump is the way to go. We I check the specs on one of them many years ago I found a different story.

When they spec pumps you need to look at three things.
If it is a 255 pump at what pressure and what voltage was it tested at. You will find that as pressure goes up the output goes down. So a 255 @50psi and 12 volts is the spec given. Take the same pump and test it at 65psi and the output goes down to 225 maybe. Now drop the voltage to 10 and you are around 190. Kenny Bell sells a product called Boost-A-Pump. It lets you adjust the voltage to gain output.