Brakes failed in the snow after hours of driving in storm -- not tires

[amagar]

Yesterday, after driving freeway and stop-and-go through storm in which 5 inches of snow fell, I was 1/2 mile from home, going about 30 mph when I started to brake for a light and the foot peddle violently shook and didn't want to compress, slowing my car but not stopping it and pushing me to the right. If the car in front of me hadn't of turned, I would have hit it. I rolled into a grocery parking lot and depressed the breaks. Same thing. I thought, maybe, ice had built up so I drove forward not more than three feet and hit the breaks..Same thing...car pulled to the right. Problems seemed to be coming from front left brake. Grinding noise. Violent peddle push. I repeated this stop and go three more times with no change in braking ability. No one was out in this snow, so I managed to limp home by just rolling to stop.

This is not a tire issue -- they performed fine during the worst parts of the storm yesterday. This was not ABS, at least working ABS, because I know what that feels like. This was not bad winter driving -- I've driving 30 years in the snow.

I'm going to have it (2012 with less than 20k) towed to the dealer...but I'd like some insight into what I might be dealing

Thank you

 

[danieljw]

Sounds like you are still under warranty. What is to negotiate?

 

[amagar]

Negotiate was probably the wrong term. I wasn't talking in terms of dollars. Just negotiating in terms of information...and explanation to dealer. I guess I'm worried dealer won't find anything and will send me on my way only to have it happen again during next snow...
I had an issue with this car's audio...and dealer couldn't find...then kept it and drove in nearly 1,000 miles...found it and replaced the whole audio/gps unit...said this was the first cx-5 to experience that problem.

 

[danieljw]

Hard to say, but certainly sounds like a mechanical failure. If they test drive it and the behavior persists, then they'll know. If they send you on your way, find another dealer.

 

[cjecpa]

Found this:

Brake Pulls Car To Left Or Right When Braking

This can be caused by sticking or failed brake calipers or by problems with a brake pad. If the problem is severe ( see ‘Locked brakes’, above) have your car towed in for repair. A sticking brake may also cause this problem (see ‘burning smell’, below). If the pull shifts from left to right this is not a brake problem, it is likely a suspension problem.

You Smell A Burning Rubber/Chemical Smell After Driving

Some people describe this as smelling like burning resin. This may be due to burning brakes, although it could also be an indicator of problems with your clutch. You may also see light smoke coming from one or more wheel wells. Another indicator here may be that your car pulls to one side or the other. Stop your car and check that the emergency brake is off. If you were just driving down a long steep grade let your brakes cool down before proceeding. If neither of these conditions has occurred you may have a stuck brake. Have your car towed for repair. Continued driving may warp your discs or cause complete brake failure. Even if your brake appears to free itself, have your auto technician inspect your brakes, since extensive heating may cause damage to the coatings on your brakes and may cause brake fade.

 

[amagar]

No smell, FYI.
Thank you for the replies.
I looked online for other similar issues...some mention (not Mazda, though) of ABS sensor problems can cause similar.
I look forward to reading others' ideas...and will, of course, inform you all of what the diagnosis is, along with remedy.

 

[xtrailman]

Could it be a DSC problem? From the manual, I believe there is a switch to turn it off, but not sure.

Dynamic Stability Control
(DSC)
The Dynamic Stability Control (DSC)
automatically controls braking and engine
torque in conjunction with systems such
as ABS and TCS to help control side slip
when driving on slippery surfaces, or
during sudden or evasive maneuvering,
enhancing vehicle safety.
Refer to ABS (page 4-62) and TCS (page
4-63).
DSC operation is possible at speeds
greater than 20 km/h (12 mph).
A system malfunction or operation
conditions are indicated by a warning.
Refer to Warning/Indicator Lights on page
4-15.

 

[cjecpa]

Any warning lights?

 

[erhayes]

+1 xtrailman

 

[davesxx01]

If the dealer finds nothing wrong and cannot duplicate the problem I might suggest something as simple as rotor or caliper iced up. I've had it happen on other cars before and it's not uncommon. Extreme cold/wet weather driving now I will ride the brakes every now and then to keep some heat in them.
Did you happen to check the brakes/rotors when you stopped for ice/snow build up?

 

[MikeM.]

If the dealer finds nothing wrong and cannot duplicate the problem I might suggest something as simple as rotor or caliper iced up.

+1

 

[brandini]

Also a good reminder that brakes are not maintenance free, re-lubing and bleeding them every 2 years with ceramic grease will do much to extend their life and find problems early.

 

[amagar]

Dealer finds nothing wrong /fearful/ leaning toward others' suggestion about frozen

Dealer said everything -- tires, brakes, abs -- looks good and that computer diagnostics showed no problem. We're meeting dealer tomorrow to see if we can replicate issue, but based on some other posts here, I bet we cannot. My guess is the caliber/rotors were iced and have melted by now.

The frozen caliper/rotor makes sense to me since a) dealer found nothing and b) When this happened, I had partial braking and car was pulling to one side (so one side maybe frozen)

A couple of other clues about the situation that I hope may help you auto sleuths:

a)I drove the car about 50 miles over a three-hour span of errands. Temp about 20 degrees and 5 inches of snow fell during this time. 20 of those miles were freeway (down to one lane, about 50 mph). The rest was divided highway, about 40 mph. Very slushy sloppy roadways or snow-covered.

b)When braking issue happened, I didn't know about potential freezing...but I've had brakes (in another vehicle) slip before in heavy rain because of wetness. So I did several short starts and stops in grocery parking lot, trying to clear the pads. Didn't help.

c)The CX-5 spent the night in our garage, where it hovered around freezing overnight. In the morning, my husband -- who was at work when this happened with me and the braking -- took the CX-5 out to our cul-de-sac to see what he experienced. He found it wasn't nearly as severe as I described unless he stomped on brake (fyi: I'm not a brake stomper...so this sort of lends to the theory of frozen...because ice may have partially dissolved in garage overnight so hubby had less severe issue in the morning). Unfortunately, neither of us looked under car (lesson learned).

My first reaction to dealer news was this: I'm selling the CX-5 for a Subaru. I have very much enjoyed my CX-5, but I have quite literally had dreams of my brakes failing since this incident. If this would have happened on the freeway that day (I was surrounded by semi-trucks and cars), the outcome could have been catastrophic.

My more thoughtful reaction is this: How can I prevent frozen rotor/caliper and is the CX-5 more vulnerable than any other vehicle?

Finally, I'm surprised the dealer didn't mention potential freezing problems.

Thank you all for your help and guidance with this.

 

[MikeM.]

My first reaction to dealer news was this: I'm selling the CX-5 for a Subaru.

I'm having trouble believing this is a real reaction. Subaru's have the same type of brakes. It can happen on any car under specific conditions.

My more thoughtful reaction is this: How can I prevent frozen rotor/caliper

You can avoid the conditions that cause it (like driving through slushy puddles when it's well below freezing). If you are truly concerned about hitting the exact same conditions again I would have the brakes serviced and have the technician very lightly grease the moving parts.

and is the CX-5 more vulnerable than any other vehicle?

There is no reason to believe it is more vulnerable than any other car.

This will never happen if you build up some brake heat before entering slushy water during very cold conditions. Generally this is not an issue because brakes warm up as they are used and also because if there is water on the roadway it is generally too warm for ice to freeze to the brakes. Avoid hitting standing water at speed when it's that cold out!

 

[amagar]

Thank you for the response. Where I live, it is impossible for any driver to avoid standing water when it is cold out. We get many feet of snow every year and routinely drive through water and thick slush.

What's so unnerving to me is this: Myself, my husband, my parents (in their 80s), our friends, have driven in the same condition for hundreds (maybe thousands) of hours over many years (I commute 70 miles daily) -- often in shabby vehicles -- and no one we know has ever run into this phenomenon.

I plan to work my brakes (to keep them warm) during any snow event....but I don't know how long it will take me to feel confident.

 

[craigo]

Thank you for the response. Where I live, it is impossible for any driver to avoid standing water when it is cold out. We get many feet of snow every year and routinely drive through water and thick slush.

What's so unnerving to me is this: Myself, my husband, my parents (in their 80s), our friends, have driven in the same condition for hundreds (maybe thousands) of hours over many years (I commute 70 miles daily) -- often in shabby vehicles -- and no one we know has ever run into this phenomenon.

I plan to work my brakes (to keep them warm) during any snow event....but I don't know how long it will take me to feel confident.

I once had a similar experience, except it was a styrofoam cup got stuck in a brake caliper while driving on the highway. The noise was awful. What are the odds of that? I wouldn't have believed it had I not pulled over and removed it myself. I'm guessing it was a mix of ice/snow/debris that got pushed into there and froze.

 

[davesxx01]

I think you'll be fine, no need to get drastic and trade it in.

May I suggest that when in the same conditions again you simply lightly ride your brakes every now and then. It's happened to me and my old VW also, especially in heavy rain!
My first application of the brakes were almost zero stoppage! Then I could stop no problem.

Do I think you'll have the same problem every time? NO.

A somewhat simple cure may be to make/find some kind of deflector for the rotors but also know that rotors/calipers need cooling air so,,,,,
just consider you had a piece of bad luck in getting water/slush built up on your rotor/caliper during a long drive,,,,, as anyone of us could have.

 

[CXVille]

I don't think it was frozen. Most water that freezes onto a metal surface like a brake caliper will be slushy and not that strong. A couple of applications of the brakes should clear it. I think you got a rock or piece of gravel jammed in there that was stopping application of the front left caliper. This caused all the braking to be done by the right and hence the pulling. It probably fell out in the towing process. This can happen to any vehicle, but takes the perfect set of conditions.

If the brakes froze, the folks up in Canada would have found this out a while back.

Learn to REALLY step on the brakes next time. You won't hurt the calipers, but might just bust the rock and get it out of there.

 

[V8toilet]

Found this:

Brake Pulls Car To Left Or Right When Braking

This can be caused by sticking or failed brake calipers or by problems with a brake pad. If the problem is severe ( see Locked brakes, above) have your car towed in for repair. A sticking brake may also cause this problem (see burning smell, below). If the pull shifts from left to right this is not a brake problem, it is likely a suspension problem.

You Smell A Burning Rubber/Chemical Smell After Driving

Some people describe this as smelling like burning resin. This may be due to burning brakes, although it could also be an indicator of problems with your clutch. You may also see light smoke coming from one or more wheel wells. Another indicator here may be that your car pulls to one side or the other. Stop your car and check that the emergency brake is off. If you were just driving down a long steep grade let your brakes cool down before proceeding. If neither of these conditions has occurred you may have a stuck brake. Have your car towed for repair. Continued driving may warp your discs or cause complete brake failure. Even if your brake appears to free itself, have your auto technician inspect your brakes, since extensive heating may cause damage to the coatings on your brakes and may cause brake fade.

I agree with you, I've had this exact same thing happen to my Tundra and found the caliper frozen.

 

[brandini]

I don't think it was frozen. Most water that freezes onto a metal surface like a brake caliper will be slushy and not that strong. A couple of applications of the brakes should clear it. I think you got a rock or piece of gravel jammed in there that was stopping application of the front left caliper. This caused all the braking to be done by the right and hence the pulling. It probably fell out in the towing process. This can happen to any vehicle, but takes the perfect set of conditions.

If the brakes froze, the folks up in Canada would have found this out a while back.

Learn to REALLY step on the brakes next time. You won't hurt the calipers, but might just bust the rock and get it out of there.

Very possible.

It'd be advantageous to have them re-grease the brakes and bleed them for the sake of being thorough. Crappy little things happen, a rock hopped between the inner dust cover/air guide and the rotor on a friend's miata- WOW the sound was horrendous but it didn't affect the pad-to-rotor contact area.

Also remember, ANY car is susceptible to this, so a false sense of security when driving another car isn't going to be a good thing.